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Thread: Opportunity to draft a Canyoneering Policy for the UNPC

  1. #1

    Opportunity to draft a Canyoneering Policy for the UNPC

    Hey all,

    I received an E-mail today from the Global Safety Manager -Risk Management Division of The Church or Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In the email I was asked to help develop a Mountaineering/Canyoneering Policy for the BSA Utah National Park Council.

    I wanted to open up this topic to the canyoneering community.

    What would you like to see in a BSA canyoneering policy?

    Thanks!

    Blake Merrell
    CanyoneeringUtah.blogspot.com
    My YouTube Channel

    "As you journey through life, choose your destination well, but do not hurry there. You will arrive soon enough. Wander the back roads and forgotten path[s] ... Such things are riches for the soul. And if upon arrival, you find that your destination is not exactly as you had dreamed, ... know that the true worth of your travels lies not in where you come to be at journey

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  3. #2
    Something about LNT and group size should definitely be in there. I have been a scout leader for about 1/2 of my life and I see these things violated repeatedly.

    They should probably require helmets in the policy as well.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  4. Likes deagol, jman liked this post
  5. #3
    +1 to the LNT, also I don't think the scouts should be allowed to do a canyon if at least one of the leaders haven't already done it so the leaders know exactly what they are getting their boys into.

  6. Likes Mountaineer, jman liked this post
  7. #4
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    UNPC only?

    So that is only applicable to Scouts south of Utah County, am I reading that right?

    Why would the UNPC Counsel Canyoneering policy be different then Trapper Trail (Ogden area) Counsel Canyoneering policy?
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
    "He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
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    "SEND IT, BRO!!"

  8. #5
    Neither UNPC nor Trapper Trails has an approved canyoneering program in place yet.

    Myself and Jeff are on the Trapper Trails canyoneering committee and have made quite a bit of progress toward an approved program, similar to GSLC.

  9. #6
    Not sure what BSA leaders minimal skillset is, but for a canyoneering trip I would want at least two to have some formal canyon training and at least one to have wilderness first aid training.

    As already stated, standard canyoneering practices should also apply like small group size, LNT, proper equipment. I would think always belaying the kids (unless they have formal training) would be a must. Also, their first rappel experience should be in a controlled environment, not in a canyon.




    Quote Originally Posted by Kuya View Post
    Hey all,

    I received an E-mail today from the Global Safety Manager -Risk Management Division of The Church or Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In the email I was asked to help develop a Mountaineering/Canyoneering Policy for the BSA Utah National Park Council.

    I wanted to open up this topic to the canyoneering community.

    What would you like to see in a BSA canyoneering policy?

    Thanks!

    Blake Merrell

  10. #7
    All very good points. I will make sure to include those things.
    CanyoneeringUtah.blogspot.com
    My YouTube Channel

    "As you journey through life, choose your destination well, but do not hurry there. You will arrive soon enough. Wander the back roads and forgotten path[s] ... Such things are riches for the soul. And if upon arrival, you find that your destination is not exactly as you had dreamed, ... know that the true worth of your travels lies not in where you come to be at journey

  11. #8
    I would have something in it that states. "All persons that are participating in the activity must first pass off to the Canyon Leaders the basic skills needed to do that canyon". Or something like that. Just so someone is not putting on a harness or rappelling for the first time ever in the canyon.

  12. Likes Kuya liked this post
  13. #9
    Here is my draft copy of the UNPC Canyoneering Policy. Please have a look and make comments as you see fit.

    Thanks!

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
    CanyoneeringUtah.blogspot.com
    My YouTube Channel

    "As you journey through life, choose your destination well, but do not hurry there. You will arrive soon enough. Wander the back roads and forgotten path[s] ... Such things are riches for the soul. And if upon arrival, you find that your destination is not exactly as you had dreamed, ... know that the true worth of your travels lies not in where you come to be at journey

  14. #10
    I don't have a login for Google docs, but two suggestions:

    Section 2.3: should it be stated that dynamic line only be used for belay and not be used for the rap line itself?

    Section 2.3: should cryptobiotic crust be added as a surface to avoid?

  15. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by deagol View Post
    I don't have a login for Google docs, but two suggestions:

    Section 2.3: should it be stated that dynamic line only be used for belay and not be used for the rap line itself?

    Section 2.3: should cryptobiotic crust be added as a surface to avoid?
    I think it would be fair to clarify that in the canyoneering section of the policy. While i don't think rappelling on dynamic ropes as a unsafe thing, i do believe that it is best practice to canyoneer with static ropes.

    waking on cryptobiotic crust kinda falls under the leave no trace rules. I made a sub list of some items that i think especially appropriate for canyoneering. check it out and let me know what more I should add/take away.
    CanyoneeringUtah.blogspot.com
    My YouTube Channel

    "As you journey through life, choose your destination well, but do not hurry there. You will arrive soon enough. Wander the back roads and forgotten path[s] ... Such things are riches for the soul. And if upon arrival, you find that your destination is not exactly as you had dreamed, ... know that the true worth of your travels lies not in where you come to be at journey

  16. Likes deagol liked this post
  17. #12
    looks good to me.

  18. Likes Kuya liked this post
  19. #13
    Section 2.3: should it be stated that dynamic line only be used for belay and not be used for the rap line itself?
    Static lines are preferable for rappelling only because they are easier to pull and take abrasion better, but there are no safety issues with rappelling on a dynamic line that I'm aware of.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  20. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    Static lines are preferable for rappelling only because they are easier to pull and take abrasion better, but there are no safety issues with rappelling on a dynamic line that I'm aware of.
    yes, but isn't that a good enough reason?

  21. #15
    Seems reasonable to me. Do you have a list of non BSA training programs?

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