going to moab in June. I've never been there before... Anything too good to miss?

[Kashmire]

Hey Hymen, if I crapped in a forum that you like, I'd expect you to get after me. Keep the crapping to a minimum. That's all I'm sayin. Once you post a bunch of good content, then you can walk around in your underwear. Can't do that on your first day. Right?

I like that you can take a punch. And that you have a sense of humor.

Contact accadacca or sombeech and they can change your screen name.

Yeah? Well how about; Slot Buster, Richard Driver, or Mr Phister?... just kidding ;)

[xxnitsuaxx]

[QUOTE=Slot Machine;567157]Your fascination with me is creepy. Man, I don

[Kashmire]

I think I am all stocked up on gear now for our trip... helmets, harnesses, rope, pull rope, webbing, piranha, ATC big air xp, fiddlestick, biners, prusik stuff, bags, shoes, appropriate clothes, camera... odds and ends... anything of notable value I'm missing?... Ohh and water, maps, compass

[Brian in SLC]

I think I am all stocked up on gear now for our trip... helmets, harnesses, rope, pull rope, webbing, piranha, ATC big air xp, fiddlestick, biners, prusik stuff, bags, shoes, appropriate clothes, camera... odds and ends... anything of notable value I'm missing?... Ohh and water, maps, compass

Maybe a couple three shoulder length slings with biners to match. A tether per person.

Fiddlestick? Hmmm. Not sure I'd recommend that item for your kit.

[Kashmire]

Maybe a couple three shoulder length slings with biners to match. A tether per person.

Fiddlestick? Hmmm. Not sure I'd recommend that item for your kit.

I appreciate your advice, and I am curious if you are making this recommendation because I am a "newb"... I just want to say that I completely understand. I also have to say, (and this may not help me any) that I work as an industrial maintenance tech. Everyday I make life or death decisions that involve double and triple safety checks. This includes fall protection, high voltage electricity, stored energy hazards, etc... I know it probably looks like nonsense words on the screen to you but... in reality its not. A mistake = death or amputation. Further I am in a profession where not so common common sense has put me in a lead position. Now I know these are totally unrelated but I have heard it expressed many times that canyoneering is not a dangerous sport when done slowly and methodically. I am not looking to jumping in to a 4C III RX I am trying to start it slow and be smart. I have a guided tour to do our first time and from there I feel confident to ease into this sport. I bought the gear for a reason, to be safe and efficient and not disturb the beauty of this magnificent place we are going! I practiced non stop since the beginning of making the plans for this trip. I'm ready for my last training session (the guided tour)... I have been eating sleeping and breathing nothing but this trip for 3 months. Caution comes second nature to me. I also can say that my trip is May 28-June 2 any experienced canyoneers want to join us and make sure I don't have any bad habits you are welcome to. I'll guarantee you that you'll never meet a more appreciative student! And when we are done I'll buy dinner and the cold beer!

[Kashmire]

Ohh and did I mention that I have a strong back for carrying gear! ;)

[Brian in SLC]

I wouldn't recommend a fiddlestick to some of advanced abilities/experienced either. Just not a fan of it. Still can't get my head around retailers selling it.

Also not a fan of your pull cord and rappelling single strand either, but, folks follow what the cool kids are doing. Kinda wonder if the SRT rappelling is more responsible for the rope grooves seen on all the popular canyons in Zion...dunno.... Two ropes tied together with a "euro death knot" don't seem as likely to get stuck versus the bulky biner block/pull cord combo, IMHO (and, as seen recently in Zion). Not as much margin if something happens to your single rappel rope.

So, I'd recommend two rappel ropes and no pull cord. But, I'm probably not in the majority.

Cheers.

[Kashmire]

I wouldn't recommend a fiddlestick to some of advanced abilities/experienced either. Just not a fan of it. Still can't get my head around retailers selling it.

Also not a fan of your pull cord and rappelling single strand either, but, folks follow what the cool kids are doing. Kinda wonder if the SRT rappelling is more responsible for the rope grooves seen on all the popular canyons in Zion...dunno.... Two ropes tied together with a "euro death knot" don't seem as likely to get stuck versus the bulky biner block/pull cord combo, IMHO (and, as seen recently in Zion). Not as much margin if something happens to your single rappel rope.

So, I'd recommend two rappel ropes and no pull cord. But, I'm probably not in the majority.

Cheers.

Thanks for the advice I'll take in all I can and use my best judgment when the time comes... I just want to be as safe and efficient as possible... though it seems one sacrifices to the other

[TommyBoy]

As someone who is a fan of the fiddlestick, I would say its a great tool to learn to use and certainly has its uses, although as a beginner you are unlikely to find a need for it in any of the canyons you will be visiting. Take it with since its light and small, play around with setting it up and see how it interacts with the environment, but then put it back in the pack and rappel without it.

It sounds like you are a methodical and careful person, but there's no reason to rush into the advanced techniques especially when they won't be needed where you're going. Why complicate things and add in another possible point of failure when you're just starting out?

[Rob L]

I wouldn't recommend a fiddlestick to some of advanced abilities/experienced either. Just not a fan of it. ....

and

...rope grooves....

But Shirley the fiddlestick (and other similar devices) reduce rope grooves? Perhaps I'm confused by your post, Brian.

...SRT....

I don't know that term so perhaps my responses above are not relevant, but upon review, I'll post anyway.

(My snips of Brian's post at the "..." points)

Rob (very inexperienced canyoneer; just curious)

[Iceaxe]

SRT = Single Rope Technique = rappel rope, biner block and pull chord.

[Kashmire]

Maybe it is a ignorant "newbie" way of thinking, but I didn't buy this gear to leave Junking up the scenery. I intend to try and retrieve as much as often as possible. Now I assume there will be times when webbing will have to be left behind for cleaner/smoother rope pulls. For the most part though I don't want to leave gear behind! I guess take each situation as it comes?

[TommyBoy]

Not leaving gear behind is a very admirable desire, and the FS definitely helps with that, however in most beginner and even intermediate level canyons the anchors will already be there since a lot of canyoneers either don't know or don't feel comfortable with ghosting techniques.

[Iceaxe]

You are going to be doing trade routes, which will already have well established anchors. It is important that you inspect the anchors and replace anything you find fault with, but removing or relocating trade route anchors would be frowned upon.

Until you begin doing explorations or advanced routes you can leave the fiddle stick at home, and even when you begin doing explorations or advanced canyons a fiddle stick is not my preferred or go-to tool.

[ratagonia]

You are going to be doing trade routes, which will already have well established anchors. It is important that you inspect the anchors and replace anything you find fault with, but removing or relocating trade route anchors would be frowned upon.

Until you begin doing explorations or advanced routes you can leave the fiddle stick at home, and even when you begin doing explorations or advanced canyons a fiddle stick is not my preferred or go-to tool.

Trade Route Canyons: tend to have anchors in place. Not always in the best place, and often poorly rigged. Often many many slings, all but one of which can and should be removed.

If the anchor you come to makes no sense or seems in a bad place, please consider quite a few reasons for it to be where it is. Perhaps there is water to avoid. Perhaps ... lots of things, but one reason anchors are in places is because people made poor choices. In any case, it is ALWAYS up to YOU to assure that the anchor for YOUR party is 100%. And best if what you leave behind is as good as possible, and as clean as possible. Trade Route Canyons are a good place to accumulate a collection of circus-colored webbing. Collect one of EACH color!

Some people find the FiddleStick a useful tool, and some people don't.

Tom

[Absolute Gravity]

Buster High Man

Maybe it is a ignorant "newbie" way of thinking, but I didn't buy this gear to leave Junking up the scenery. I intend to try and retrieve as much as often as possible. Now I assume there will be times when webbing will have to be left behind for cleaner/smoother rope pulls. For the most part though I don't want to leave gear behind! I guess take each situation as it comes?

This is your first time out, and it is with a 9 yr old. Do not take each situation as it comes. Plan meticulously and know what you are doing every step of the way as best you can.

Don’t worry about ghosting. Don’t worry about leaving ANY trace. There is ZERO reason for you to be using a fiddlestick. Go have some fun with your son and worry about ghosting canyons for another time. Iceaxe had some great recommendations.

If you really want to play around with a fiddlestick, fine. Do like Tommy said and experiment with it then put it away and rappel safely.

I hope you and your son have shit tons of fun.

// ************************************************** ****************
// ignore if you like

Now... god damn I hate being this preachy, but……the username, it super sucks. And keep in mind this is the rowdier of the canyoneering forums.

The fact that you presume to know anything about me or my Screen name shines light on how judgmental and arrogant you are! I for one could care less if you approve sir! Good day to you
"Big Shot"

I’m sure that in some universe it is perfectly reasonable for a person to use ‘Buster High Man’ as a screen name on a site such as this, that does not include a sub-forum of porn featuring 15 yr olds, to not be presumed a total dickbag. This is not that universe, and this is not rapeymcdickbagsdocanyoneering.com, yet here you are. Buster High Man. Gigantic dickbag.

Your posts, however, seem to say you are not a gigantic dickbag. You should change your username. Now get off my lawn.

Yeah? Well how about; Slot Buster, Richard Driver, or Mr Phister?... just kidding ;)

All of those suck, and yet even then, you chose ‘Buster High Man’. What might I presume?


**** me that made me feel old. Also, didn't I tell you to get off my lawn?

[Iceaxe]

Trade Route Canyons: tend to have anchors in place. Not always in the best place, and often poorly rigged. Often many many slings, all but one of which can and should be removed.

While I agree noobs have a bad habit of adding more webbing as a feeling of security the trade routes tend to have responsibly well placed anchors.

I mean seriously....., when I do Pine Creek, Mystery, Dragon Fly, U-turn, etc I certainly don't consider the anchors poorly placed. In my experience the trade routes see enough skilled canyoneers traversing the routes that the anchors tend to be well placed. The main problems seem to appear when noobs rebuild the anchors and fail to extend the rappel rings over the edge. YMMV

[Kashmire]

Buster High Man



This is your first time out, and it is with a 9 yr old. Do not take each situation as it comes. Plan meticulously and know what you are doing every step of the way as best you can.

Don’t worry about ghosting. Don’t worry about leaving ANY trace. There is ZERO reason for you to be using a fiddlestick. Go have some fun with your son and worry about ghosting canyons for another time. Iceaxe had some great recommendations.

If you really want to play around with a fiddlestick, fine. Do like Tommy said and experiment with it then put it away and rappel safely.

I hope you and your son have shit tons of fun.

// ************************************************** ****************
// ignore if you like

Now... god damn I hate being this preachy, but……the username, it super sucks. And keep in mind this is the rowdier of the canyoneering forums.



I’m sure that in some universe it is perfectly reasonable for a person to use ‘Buster High Man’ as a screen name on a site such as this, that does not include a sub-forum of porn featuring 15 yr olds, to not be presumed a total dickbag. This is not that universe, and this is not rapeymcdickbagsdocanyoneering.com, yet here you are. Buster High Man. Gigantic dickbag.

Your posts, however, seem to say you are not a gigantic dickbag. You should change your username. Now get off my lawn.




All of those suck, and yet even then, you chose ‘Buster High Man’. What might I presume?

**** me that made me feel old. Also, didn't I tell you to get off my lawn?

I hit up "sombeech" about changing it so... idk... ?... I am surprised that this many of you care... I am extremely grateful for your advice though... wish I could pick all your brains!... Thanks again!

[Iceaxe]

I hit up "sombeech" about changing it so... idk... ?... I am surprised that this many of you care... I am extremely grateful for your advice though... wish I could pick all your brains!... Thanks again!

I have no problem with you username, but than again, i wasn't raised as a whiny candyass pussy.

[Absolute Gravity]

I have no problem with you username, but than again, i wasn't raised as a whiny candyass pussy.