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Thread: Canyoneering Vehicle Thoughts

  1. #21
    One big problem with a full size truck is if you drive seldom traveled 4x4 tracks you will end up with some nice Rocky Mountain pinstripes (scratches from dense growth long the road). I find this is much more of an issue when exploring rock art and ruins than canyoneering.

    The large majority of canyon trailhead's are well traveled and Rocky Mountain pinstripes are not an issue. But get off the beaten track just about anywhere looking for the more secluded rock art and ruins and a full size truck is a major hindrance. There is a reason the 4x4 crowd doesn't use full size trucks to create rock crawlers.

    So bottomline you need to evaluate what else the vehicle will be used for. Is it a daily driver? Are looks and style important? How important is gas mileage?

    When I bought my Tacoma my reasoning was.... they are stylish, I'm a car nut so this was important to me. The stock Tacoma is one of the best off road vehicles right off the showroom floor, not a lot of need to modify. The backseat is a little cramped, but I don't give a shit because I don't ride back there :-) Fuel mileage is good. It's smaller but I can still haul everything I need like mountain bikes and camping gear. It's my daily driver so it has to be nice around town. Resale on Toyota's are outstanding, which is important as I buy a new vehicle every 3 to 5 years.

    As I said... I'm not advocating a Tacoma, just pointing out the type of things you should be considering. Before the Tacoma I have always owned full size trucks and SUV's the past 30 years, but my needs changed when I stopped pulling a boat and wanted to get further off the beaten path.

    YMMV

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  4. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Card View Post
    '05 Toyota Tundra - stock version. It has always found the trailhead for every canyon without fail that I have ever wanted to hike and packs a ton of stuff in the back.
    The word is those last generation Tundra's are awesome...the V8 in particular. I've always admired those trucks...If I had less than 20 grand I'd make finding one of those the top priority.

    I had a Toyota pickup back in the early nineties...then I "grew up" to the full size. I still say truck all the way...with a topper, the topper is nice. I don't like having to shoehorn the gear.


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  5. #23

    how about a 4x4 van

    you could keep your eyes on craigslist for an older 4x4 van. they turn up fairly cheaply once in a while.

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  7. #24
    3 words
    Volkswagon Westfalia Syncro

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  9. #25

    Smells like a steak and seats 35

    One word: Canyonero.

    http://youtu.be/7ZeFDe44Ddo

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  11. #26
    I prefer my Ford Expedition. Like a full size truck it will easily haul you, your friends, and all the gear. Plus the gear always stays dry and it doubles as a hotel. We usually leave after work on trips and drive until we are tired. Then pull over almost anywhere in any weather and sleep. It goes almost anywhere most the other vehicles go as long as you are good at maneuvering and don't mind scratches on your 4x4. Obviously it can't follow a jeep everywhere, but it will follow an xterra. Drives great in town too. YMMV

  12. #27
    If I hadn't seen it for myself, i wouldn't have believed it either! @hikester11 did better in his Ford Focus than I did in my Durango!
    CanyoneeringUtah.blogspot.com
    My YouTube Channel

    "As you journey through life, choose your destination well, but do not hurry there. You will arrive soon enough. Wander the back roads and forgotten path[s] ... Such things are riches for the soul. And if upon arrival, you find that your destination is not exactly as you had dreamed, ... know that the true worth of your travels lies not in where you come to be at journey

  13. #28
    I have a 15 tacoma...figured the bed is a major plus. You can just toss all the dirty clothing and gear and forget about it. The double cab has ample room in the back for people under 6 feet tall. I'm not really digging the somewhat disappointing power and dismal gas mileage though. The power train is very old and outdated vs current offerings and I sure wish it had a center differential. But if you want a sub-compact truck its really the only game in town. Was thinking of a Jeep Rubicon but the storage is pathetic and lets face it its not really reliable.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    I disagree on the full size truck. I've always had full size trucks and switched to a Toyota Tacoma in 2012 because it can go so many more places. A full size truck just doesn't fit through the tight spots on many of the back roads I travel. A full size truck just doesn't cut it if you need to do some serious wheeling.

    Not saying a Tacoma is the best fit for the original poster as its backseat is to small. I'd probably suggest a 4 Runner. Good mileage, bullet proof, comfortable for four, good resale, cost effective, yada, yada

    Fwiw- I am a gear head and I'm usually elbows deep in a car of some type when I'm not in the backcountry.
    I'm in a 2010 Tacoma and have found it excellent in the backcountry. The recommendation for the 4 Runner vs Tacoma is interesting as the Taco is based on the 4 Runner. When I bought my Tacoma, the 4 Runner seating wasn't as good which surprised me. There was less drop from the seat to the floor so the legs stretch forward more. This was a problem in the back seat particularly. The 4 Runner tends to be updated ahead of the Tacoma, and has a V8 option not available in the Tacoma.

    Tacoma brakes are mushy and vague.

    Mileage and power of the Tacoma. Many people ding this and for real reasons. I notice little driving difference between empty and loaded, but I have a 3 inch suspension lift. I've never felt under-powered, but I've never towed with it. The stock 3 leaf rear springs are notoriously weak. Around town, I've been getting about 16 mpg lately. I used to get better and am trying to track down the reason. I'm closing in on 70K miles so that's probably some contribution somewhere. I use a Scan Guage to get real time feedback on my mileage and that helps me retrain my foot. There are mileage benefits between slight foot position chages that doesn't really seem to affect your speed.

    The Tacoma gets optimum freeway mileage at about 2K RPMs. This is just over 70 mph. Above that mileage drops off quickly. I can get about 22 mpg highway with a full load of people (2 parents, 3 kids) and gear at 70mph.

    Full size trucks can beat that now as noted. But the Tacoma is tops in reliability and off road performance which are a good part of the equation for a Canyoneering vehicle.

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  16. #30
    I have a 4x4 2013 Tundra. It is totally Awesome. But when I don't want to get stuck I drive my jeep. A jeep wrangler rubicon unlimited would meet your needs perfectly. They retain their value as much as a Toyota does. We put the whole Family of 5 and all of the gear in the jeep and have plenty of room to spare.


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  18. #31
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Canyoneering Vehicle Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Steevo View Post
    I have a 4x4 2013 Tundra. It is totally Awesome. But when I don't want to get stuck I drive my jeep. A jeep wrangler rubicon unlimited would meet your needs perfectly. They retain their value as much as a Toyota does. We put the whole Family of 5 and all of the gear in the jeep and have plenty of room to spare.

    Nice! That's a sweet pic. Looks like Cali, am I right?
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
    "He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "...the first law of gear-dynamics: gear is like a gas - it will expand to fit the available space." -Wortman, Outside magazine.
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  19. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by jman View Post
    Nice! That's a sweet pic. Looks like Cali, am I right?
    Yes, that particular picture is in Big Bear, CA.
    Warning on a jeep though, you will be tempted to spend $$$$ on modifications, it's like a drug.

  20. #33
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Canyoneering Vehicle Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Steevo View Post
    Yes, that particular picture is in Big Bear, CA.
    Warning on a jeep though, you will be tempted to spend $$$$ on modifications, it's like a drug.
    Yea...i know the temptation! I had a 96 XJ 4" suspension lift and 2" body lift, 33x12.5" tires and that was a fun, very fun Jeep to cruise the desert in! Then you got the winch, lightbar, radio, random accessories, etc... :(

    I'm tempted to mod my truck more...but you see...there is a point where funds become unavailable in your account...

    So much money. But so fun. And speaking of jeeps, I probably got way more lady attention driving that thing than my current truck. Chicks dig Jeeps...that's for sure.
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
    "He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "...the first law of gear-dynamics: gear is like a gas - it will expand to fit the available space." -Wortman, Outside magazine.
    "SEND IT, BRO!!"

  21. #34
    I have an '88 hatch back Honda Civic. Surprisingly, it has gotten me into areas people with 4wd and high clearance struggled in. Unless there is a major clearance issue, I can get in. On top of that, it's super light-weight, easy to handle, and gets up to 40 mpg. I really like that last part when I'm spending most weekends in remote locations. Down side, my buddies do worry a lot about me. I used to show up late in the night due to my work schedule, but I always arrived. Once, heading out to Zero Gravity I got a pretty late start. My friends told me to text them when I hit the Hanksville exit so they could come get me. But I had no service once I left Price. I had to get out a few times and look over my obstacles, but I made it all the way in and out while a friend in a Suburban struggled. I'll admit, I'd like something with a bit more clearance, but my car just keeps getting me into (and out of) places. Thus far the only place I don't think I could have gotten her into would have been Trachyte and Cheesebox. And at that time, no one got into Cheesebox except a friend with a 4Runner, and much skilled driving. :-)

  22. #35
    Thanks everyone for posting. Given that I'm planning on taking this vehicle to the Utah desert many times a year, your perspectives are invaluable.

    In the last couple days a few people have made the case that there are smaller crossover type vehicles with AWD that get over 30mpg, have decent ground clearance and can make it to to 80% of the trailheads in the desert in Utah.
    With an AWD crossover versus a real 4X4(with 4-low) I'd be losing A LOT in off road capability, capacity and power, but the prospect of cutting my gas expense literally in half is mighty tempting.

    The only vehicle in this class that I would consider is a Subaru, and as of recent I definitely am considering one.

    Thoughts?

  23. #36
    Sissy liberal.
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  24. #37
    The only vehicle in this class that I would consider is a Subaru, and as of recent I definitely am considering one.

    Thoughts?
    The Outback has decent gas mileage and is surprisingly good off road (for the type of vehicle it is). In addition to the Outback, I have a "real SUV", but 95% of the time we take the Subaru due to gas mileage. It won't make it into places like the Doll House or over Elephant Hill (my old Pathfinder will-the new ones won't), but it will make it to the vast majority of canyoneering trailheads. Places like the Eardley Canyon TH, Egypt, Early Weed, Winter Camp Ridge, almost all of the Roost and Swell, (or even the Baby Lions Back) won't be a problem at all.

    Driving the Outback vs. the other vehicles will save about $1000 a year in gas alone. See here for a comparison:

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....35925&id=35459

    I still keep the old 4X4 (slightly modified) for the really rough roads (such as the ones mentioned above), but if I only had one vehicle, I'd choose the Subaru since it has the advantages of a sedan and is fine for light off road use and gives something between the two. It is nice to have both.

    Other than perhaps places like the Arizona Strip, there really aren't that many canyoneering areas that require a hard core 4X4 to access.

    If your main objective is Off-Roading, then you want a real 4X4, but if your main objective is canyoneering, then I'd go with something like a Subaru. Unless you're heading out to the Arizona Strip, worse case scenario is that you might have to walk a few minutes to an hour extra to save that $1000 a year.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

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  26. #38

    Canyoneering Vehicle Thoughts

    Subarus are really hit and miss when it comes to reliability. You get lemons and you get gold nuggets.

    Before anyone regales me with stories of their Subaru that has 300K on it, that's exactly my point. I have 2 friends who had outbacks that needed new engines at around 50,000. Another friend who's 2010 outback is in the shop once a month for the last year, and family member who had to replace a tranny at 60,000.

    On the other side, that same family member has a little Impreza with 320k and no major issues other than its a complete roach mobile.

    Subarus are a big gamble.

    Toyotas are much more consistent in quality, second only to Honda. Honda has fewer warranty claims than any other brand over the last 20 years, followed closely by toyota. Since its introduction, Honda has produced nearly 14 million VTEC valve train units and not a single one has EVER failed. If that's not consistency in quality, I don't know what is.

    The thing that most impresses me about my 4 runner is how well engineered every piece of the car is. Every piece and system in the car is designed to be repaired or replaced as it wears. It's a car that is designed to be fixed and keep going indefinitely. You don't have cascading system failures with toyotas, at least of that generation.

    The quality becomes evident after 205,000 miles and 18 years. No break down in my car's whole history.

    But if you're not into keeping things for a long time or are of the throw-it-away-when-it -breaks school of thought, disregard this post.

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  28. #39
    Subarus are a big gamble.
    According to the Consumer Reports at least (there aren't that many other resources that track long term reliability-JD Powers does post online and initial quality study, but that's different than long term and the questions asked are different), Subaru, Honda, and Toyota are all at the top and overall all have the same reliability ratings (better than average).

    The Subaru Outback and Toyota 4Runner are both rated "Much Better than Average" reliability, which is the highest rating. (The 2007 Outback though apparently is less reliable though and is rated average).

    Out of the other vehicles mentioned:

    Tacoma V6 4X4 = average
    Ford F150 4X4 = average
    Jeep Wrangler Unlimited = worse than average
    Nissan Xterra = Average
    Ford Expedition = Average
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  29. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SRG View Post
    The only vehicle in this class that I would consider is a Subaru, and as of recent I definitely am considering one.

    Thoughts?
    I thought you wanted a 4x4? If that is not a requirement than you can toss out everything posted up to now. Nothing wrong with a Subaru, it just doesn't met your original requirements.

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