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Thread: HOW STRONG IS THAT SLING? or ARE YOU GONNA RAP ON THAT!!!???

  1. #21
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harness man View Post
    Wow, thanks!
    Large for me and Desi has munchkin fingers: x-small (if they come in that size).
    Hanging on the wall for a year in the sun: perfectly controlled group for UV'd web sample.
    Best, Todd and Desi
    smallest size is Small. I'll send a pair down you can see how they work.

    T

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  3. #22
    A quick summary of the testing of NEW one inch tubular webbing so far:
    Name:  summary sling test.jpg
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    Note that we did a test on one new sample rigged "canyon cordelette" style to two bolt hangers terminated to a quick link.
    The sling broke right at the two blot hangers: 6,740 lbs!

    Here is some of the old sling we are going to test

    Name:  funky sling.jpg
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    NONE of the funky sling was cut or severely frayed.
    And the slings were all in use (presumably!) before we recovered them.
    All slings had some color fade, some fuzziness, and enough overall wear that we elected to replace them.

  4. #23
    RESULTS for OLD one inch rigged single strand (the way they were rigged in canyon)
    numbers are LBS

    Name:  old one inch single strand.jpg
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    Results for OLD one inch rigged as a loop (the way we found them)

    Name:  old one inch loop test.jpg
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Size:  98.0 KB

  5. #24
    Brandon just dropped by with some more old sling...
    would you rap on any of these?
    Which ones?

    Name:  which sling.jpg
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    We tested these one inch slings single strand. results are in lbs:

    Name:  which sling results.jpg
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    Yeah, the last faded blue one broke at 680 lbs.......

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  7. #25
    Lessons with one inch tubular so far?
    With older slings it is easy to lose 50% or WAY more from the original strength!
    And it is HARD to tell the difference between the good, the bad, and the REALLY ugly.
    I am GLAD that we have replaced the slings that we did.
    If you just HAVE to rap on a funky sling it is much better that it be (correctly) tied in a loop (around a solid rock or tree) or cordelette style to (2 or more) bolts.
    Old funky single strand?
    REPLACE IT

  8. #26

    HOW STRONG IS THAT SLING? or ARE YOU GONNA RAP ON THAT!!!???

    Makes you wonder if polyester would be a better choice. Superior resistance to UV, moisture, and rot.

    It's not like the nylon webbing used in canyon anchors really does anything in the way of reducing impact forces to begin with. It's not hard to find 3/4" polyester webbing with ratings in the 2,500-3,000 lb range.

    Food for thought.

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  10. #27
    Hey Bootboy, I have wondered about the same thing: is there better sling for the canyons than nylon tubular?
    UV degradation is a BIG factor contributing to the strength loss in our small group of sling samples:
    The WORST value (680 lb break) comes from the sun faded blue sling (bottom of the last picture) which was recovered from a 'dry' canyon in the Black canyon area near Vegas.
    Would a Polyester sling (of equal rating) fare better getting sunbaked?
    Will having a slightly lower melting temp weaken Poly at the knot?
    While it may seem to be insignificant the inherent stretch in nylon does provide some shock absorbing property at the anchor.
    Under extreme load (when break testing) the new nylon webbing is stretching about an extra third of the original length before failure.
    There is some good research showing the value of nylon canyon tethers (vs spectra) to prevent dangerous shock loading if one slips and falls while clipped to rappel station.
    Earlier this year my beloved Desiree was starting one of the numerous, awkward/slippery/gnarly rappels off a log in Heaps and while starting the rappel slipped and fell about 2 feet onto the sling anchor.
    As I watched helpless and Horrified I did note that the anchor sling (where I was standing) stretched 3-4 inches with the impact (she hung on to her brake and was ok)….

  11. #28
    I would like to see results of the " canyon cordalette" without the master point knot, of course with a twist in one loop.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes I am

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  13. #29

    HOW STRONG IS THAT SLING? or ARE YOU GONNA RAP ON THAT!!!???

    [QUOTE=harness man;563889]Hey Bootboy, I have wondered about the same thing: is there better sling for the canyons than nylon tubular?
    UV degradation is a BIG factor contributing to the strength loss in our small group of sling samples:
    The WORST value (680 lb break) comes from the sun faded blue sling (bottom of the last picture) which was recovered from a 'dry' canyon in the Black canyon area near Vegas.
    Would a Polyester sling (of equal rating) fare better getting sunbaked?
    Will having a slightly lower melting temp weaken Poly at the knot?
    While it may seem to be insignificant the inherent stretch in nylon does provide some shock absorbing property at the anchor.
    Under extreme load (when break testing) the new nylon webbing is stretching about an extra third of the original length before failure.
    There is some good research showing the value of nylon canyon tethers (vs spectra) to prevent dangerous shock loading if one slips and falls while clipped to rappel station.
    Earlier this year my beloved Desiree was starting one of the numerous, awkward/slippery/gnarly rappels off a log in Heaps and while starting the rappel slipped and fell about 2 feet onto the sling anchor.
    As I watched helpless and Horrified I did note that the anchor sling (where I was standing) stretched 3-4 inches with the impact (she hung on to her brake and was ok)

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  15. #30
    Geckobiker-
    testing the cordalette "equalized style" (without the master-point) could be an improvement IF the master point were badly equalized: otherwise not much difference since the failure occurs at the bolt hangers.
    The big advantage I see with tying the overhand master point is redundancy: if the sling gets cut anywhere you are just losing one point (one bolt).
    Without the master point, one cut, and the whole anchor fails..

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  17. #31
    Harness man
    I totally agree with you, and tie a knot most every time. However it is impossible to get perfect equalization in both loops going to the bolts, it
    may be close but not perfect. I will supply webbing, and rig, just my mathematical brain wanting more data, wait I need to do another canyon, I'm going crazy.

    Great info by the way.
    Yes I am

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  19. #32
    No Worries!
    Also, our test rig is using fat (4mm) Steel Fixe bolt hangars (ultimate breaking strength: 10,000 lbs).
    When applying high levels of force, thin/ sharp edges on skinnier bolt hangars can cause the sling to fail sooner.
    Sometimes (in the canyons) when rigging on a "sharp" hangar I will tuck one of tails (of the overhand knot) thru the hangar under the weighted sling as a rub pad.

  20. #33
    Bootboy-
    Unfortunately we live in a webbing world that for canyoneers, climbers, etc. is dominated by mil-spec nylon and milspec nylon derivatives (like the BW tubular).
    I have never seen (or been aware of) any readily available polyester tubular weaves or even commercial poly "flat" weaves that have breaking strengths to match (or exceed) good 'ole 5625 nylon tubular milspec.
    Without a source(s) that we all can utilize there is no polyester equivalent to test
    Unless you know of a 4,000 lb polyester sling source?

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  22. #34
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harness man View Post
    Bootboy-
    Unfortunately we live in a webbing world that for canyoneers, climbers, etc. is dominated by mil-spec nylon and milspec nylon derivatives (like the BW tubular).
    I have never seen (or been aware of) any readily available polyester tubular weaves or even commercial poly "flat" weaves that have breaking strengths to match (or exceed) good 'ole 5625 nylon tubular milspec.
    Without a source(s) that we all can utilize there is no polyester equivalent to test
    Unless you know of a 4,000 lb polyester sling source?
    There are sources, but they are not available to the general public. Perhaps Taylor has discovered a business opportunity. However, like many "problems solved" in the marketplace, he would first have to convince people that a problem exists.

    Tom

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  24. #35
    I have a source for 3/4", 3800# polyester webbing. I'd have to buy a half a mile of it though.

    If people are interested, I could pull the trigger.

    I'd sell 100 yards for $75

    $0.25/ft is a screaming deal.

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  26. #36
    Oops, I lied. The 3/4" stuff is nylon.

    Scratch that.

    Let me dig around my sources and see what I can turn up.

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  28. #37
    This is my first time posting on this, but I thought I might have something interesting to add to the conversation? WAY back in March of 1991 I strung some already-old climbing webbing on two trees in my pine forest front yard up here in the mountains in Idaho ... to clip a hammock into. They have been there ever since. Yesterday on the way down to check my mailbox, for the umpteenth time I gave them a good yank with full body weight and they are still holding what I would consider rappel weight. So that's over 23 years of sun and weather on webbing that still is 'good'. Would I rappel off them? Nope, but there were a few times I had to rap on scarey stuff when trying to beat darkness to get off a climb, and for me it is an interesting experiment. I'm attaching a picture of each piece of webbing.
    Name:  webbing1.jpg
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Size:  180.4 KBName:  webbing2.jpg
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Size:  92.2 KB

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  30. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    There is no reason to assume it is linear (without comprehensive testing).
    I recall reading online pull test data of webbing a few years ago. Cut 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 through, and the results were indeed linear. Intuition would tend to argue that, since webbing is stranded.

    Am looking for a link to confirm I'm not crazy.

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  32. #39
    Hi Dougr
    the (very) limited testing we have done would indicate the same:
    on tubular webbing like one inch mil spec (5625) the weave is a pretty simple "plain weave" with warp strands (the long strands running the length of the web) alternating with the weft (or fill) cross strands running side to side.
    In a couple of different experiments with one inch tubular we have cut a bunch of the fill strands and found that it has no effect on the tensile strength of the web.
    And cutting the warp (long) strands seems to reduce the strength by the proportion cut.
    As a practical matter in the canyon:actual cutting of webbing in the field is pretty rare, so if I found some partially cut webbing at an anchor, I would first try to determine, why?
    Rubbing on sharp rock?
    Sawing on a edge or burr on a bolt hangar?
    And replace the damaged web, fearing that what could happen once will likely repeat itself or worsen!
    Best,
    Todd

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