Subway Nov 8th...COLD?

[getlivingfit]

Me and some friends are going to do the Subway top down route. Some of us just have boating wetsuits 3/4 length. Some will have a triathlon style full length wetsuit. I do not know their thickness. Are we going to freeze? Should we rent something better? Two of us are experienced canyoneers but usually do routes that are warmer or not as wet. So I am really grasping for understanding here the chilliness factor.
How long would we need the suites for? The swims are about 3.75 miles in and only last a 1.25 miles ish. RIGHT? Would we be able to put dry clothes on after the swim section... to finish the hike? Or do we just bring a windbreaker to put over after?
Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks!

[ratagonia]

Me and some friends are going to do the Subway top down route. Some of us just have boating wetsuits 3/4 length. Some will have a triathlon style full length wetsuit. I do not know their thickness. Are we going to freeze? Should we rent something better? Two of us are experienced canyoneers but usually do routes that are warmer or not as wet. So I am really grasping for understanding here the chilliness factor.
How long would we need the suites for? The swims are about 3.75 miles in and only last a 1.25 miles ish. RIGHT? Would we be able to put dry clothes on after the swim section... to finish the hike? Or do we just bring a windbreaker to put over after?
Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks!

Just did the Subway last week.

There are only 2 or 3 short swims. The water is spring-fed, so it is not as cold as water that sits there and cools down each night. Except the first swim, which tends to be the coldest.

The unknown here is the cold tolerance of you and your friends, but since you are asking - NO, you will not freeze. YES, you can put on clothes inbetween the swims, but this is usually not necessary. A RAINCOAT over your wetsuit will reduce evaporation off the suit and tends to increase warmth well. So I think you will be OK in shortee wetsuits, though not ideal. For those concerned, you can probably rent wetsuit jackets from ZAC.

Beautiful this time of year. Lots of sand in there at the moment. Daylight hours are short, and the hike is still long, so make sure y'all have headlamps.

Tom

[jman]

My brother and 6 other friends attempted it yesterday but decided not too (a great idea) after a hiking a bit after encountering "steady rain, which turned into heavy rain for 30minutes, followed by pea-size hail, which returned back to steady rain" and to which the "canyon flashed" afterwards.

I'm usually a shortee-wetsuit type of a guy, but I pulled a subway permit for that same day as well and will be wearing a full-wetsuit 3/2.

The 3/2 is perfect (for most canyoneers) for this time of year, especially something like the Subway where it's in and out of water.

Basically, x2 to what the Tom said.

Keep in mind, that if you are all mostly beginners - those rappels and down-climbs into water will be your time eaters. And as you wait around...you're gonna got pretty cold waiting for the next person to proceed.

Who knows, maybe I'll see you down there! Im Brett, btw.

[getlivingfit]

Great, thanks for advice. Maybe we will see you there Brett.

[getlivingfit]

Okay here is another question. I want my hands warm. I have leather gloves that I use to rappel and belay. Will they be rediculous with the water or will I be able to keep them dry? I am picturing rappelling into a pool so the rope will be wet, right? Do we need a certain type of glove to rappel and keep warm?

[villainousturtle]

I will be canyoneering in Zion myself that weekend. We have a 3/2 on one guy and a 4/3 on the other.


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[ratagonia]

Okay here is another question. I want my hands warm. I have leather gloves that I use to rappel and belay. Will they be rediculous with the water or will I be able to keep them dry? I am picturing rappelling into a pool so the rope will be wet, right? Do we need a certain type of glove to rappel and keep warm?

There are a couple different ways of doing it:

First, with flotation in your pack, you can swim backwards using your feet, and keeping your arms and hands out of the water, which helps a LOT with staying warm. Sometimes it is hard to stand up without putting a hand down into the water...

I use the DHG gloves and they are great, and fairly warm. Expensive though, at 7$ a pair... ;-)

Can use dishwasher gloves under your leather gloves, and tuck the ends into your wetsuit... assuming your wetsuits reach to your wrists. Otherwise, difficult to get to work.

Tom