Front shock setup

[hikster11]

Can someone explain in detail how my front shock works and the proper setup? I just got a new Giant Trance 27.5. It is the first bike I have ever had that has full suspension. It has Fox 32 Talas Evolution CTD 140mm front shock and a rear Fox Float CTD 140mm. I have ridden about 40 miles in Corner Canyon since I have got it. I still don

[tallsteve]

You say your bike is new? Where did you buy it from? The shop should have set all of that up for you before you took the bike out the door.
I question you having to buy a shock pump if the bike is new. Shock pumps are typically included with the bike. I have heard of some bike shops that will ghetto package the pumps that come with the bikes and then sell them separately netting them 100% profit. Again, where did you buy the bike?

[Iceaxe]

A couple items.

Corner Canyon is not the best place to dial in suspensions because as a general rule it's really smooth. A crappy suspension works really good in Corner Canyon because of the smooth trails, which is one reason you are not seeing a huge difference between your new and old bike. A 4" gutter would work perfect for dialing in your suspension.

Air does not transfer between your forks. One side is your air suspension the other is oil dampening.

What ever method you use to fill your shocks always use the same method. Yes you will leak a little air when you unscrew the pump, but theoretically it's always about the same amount of air loss so as long as you know your starting point you are good to go. The guy at the bike shop sold you a pump you didn't need. Your bike has no clue if you are adding air through a pump or compressor, it's just a dumb inanimate object.

I tossed the Fox book in the garbage and dialed in my suspension using the same method I used when racing motorcycles. Ideally you want to use ALL of your suspension travel. So I do this by placing an o-ring (a zip tie will also work) around my front forks and rear shock. Slide the o-ring all the way to the dust seal. I than go for a ride and I can see how much suspension I am using by the final position of the o-ring as it always stays at the top of my travel. Think of it as a maximum travel indicator.

If I'm not using all of my suspension travel I soften things up, If I'm bottoming my suspension a lot I add more air. Ideally you want to bottom your suspension out a couple of times a ride, that means you are using all of your suspension. I keep a notebook next to my pump so I can keep notes. I ride a much softer bike in Corner Canyon than I do in Moab.

I set my rebound as light as possible, but I don't want the bike pogo sticking, to little rebound is better then too much rebound. With too much rebound your suspension will start to pancake because it can't rebound fast enough before you contact the next bump. This will result in no travel at the end of a series of washboards.

Hope that helps.

[hikster11]

You say your bike is new? Where did you buy it from? The shop should have set all of that up for you before you took the bike out the door.
I question you having to buy a shock pump if the bike is new. Shock pumps are typically included with the bike. I have heard of some bike shops that will ghetto package the pumps that come with the bikes and then sell them separately netting them 100% profit. Again, where did you buy the bike?

Yes I bought it 2 weeks ago from Taylor Bike Shop. I did not get the shock pump from them as they said the bike was all set up for me. . Setup from the store I had 10mm of sag and I was only using about half the travel when I hit hard. I bought the pump from amazon after I let out to much air trying to adjust it myself. I don't want to have to take the bike to a shop to adjust anything. I want to be able to do it myself so I got a pump witch I now don't think i will ever use.

[hikster11]

Iceaxe thank for the reply. I have hit a curb testing my setup at my house. When hitting the curb it feels pretty good after I released some air from bike shop setup. For the most part I do think it rides smooth when hitting something big. I just thought it would be smooth on rough parts of the trail. I do think the Corner Canyon trails are smooth but I also think that there are parts on Rush trail that are wash board or little rough. I had expected it to float right over all that. I'm getting full range of travel looking at the oring on the shock.

As I am an amateur and just doing this for fun. I have tried to keep up with some other riders that are obvious experienced riders. I have kept up with some and others not. I go as fast as I dare to go and feel that it shaking the hell out of my hands. Riding Rush trail from top to bottom as fast as I dare to go by the time I get to the bottom my hands are numb. This also happened with my old bike and I thought my new bike would a lot smoother.

I did not know the internal working of the shock thought that the air was used for damping. That make sense using the air as a spring and oil on the opposite side for damping.

[neilether]

A couple of thoughts:

1. No suspension (especially Fox....personal bias.....) is going to completely smooth out the trail chatter. Depending on what adjustments you have available on the fork, you can alter this to some extent. Playing with your low speed compression damping (again, if it's available) can help, but it has effects on other aspects of the ride. Use your shock pump to set the appropriate "sag" on your shock and fork and start there. See this article:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/07/24/...-sag-properly/

and then this one:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/07/30/...e-open-mostly/

Book mark that site as they are going to release a few more of these articles in the coming days that could be very helpful.

2. If your hands go numb, make sure (as @Iceaxe pointed out) that you are in fact using all of your travel. This means that your fork is set up soft enough. If you still have problems, try getting some ergonomic grips. Like this:
http://www.pricepoint.com/Brand/Sett...k-On-Grips.axd
or
http://www.pricepoint.com/Brand/Ergo...fort-Grips.axd

These have helped me a lot. They better distribute the pressure across your palm, assuming they are set up correctly. You need to have the little "palm rest" angling up more than you think. It needs to be inline with the plane of your arm as you are holding onto the handlebar. They feel super weird at first until you get used to them.

3. The shock pump issue is a little bit surprising. I've never used a compressor, but the general feel from the biking community is that it's a bad idea. Shocks are a low volume, high pressure application and you need a pump to match. That being said, you'll never be able to "let a little bit of air out" of the shock by hand. If you touch the schrader valve, it's gonna blow most of the air very quickly. Your shock pump should have a little bleed button on it that will allow you to bleed air in very small increments. The puff of air you hear when you disconnect the shock should just be due to the pressure build up in the pump hose itself. If you are really losing that much air, there's something wrong with the pump or the shock itself.

The gage itself is likely very inaccurate. As was mentioned above, don't pay attention to recommendations on air pressure. Just pump it up and play with it until you have your sag correct and make minor adjustments from there. As long as you are using the same pump every time, just pay attention to the numbers on your pump and don't worry about what numbers other people are using or suggesting.

REal world example. I got a new shock yesterday and went thru setting it up. I pumped it up to 175. It wasn't enough air. So I put the hose back on and it read ~160. I then pumped it up to 200 which was pretty dang close. When I put the pump back on it read ~185. So, is my desired air pressure 200 or 185?? I don't know, and frankly it doesn't matter to me. I just know that on my particular shock pump, I need to pump it up to 200. These air canisters will leak slowly over time, so you probably should check the air pressure monthly or so (or any time you notice it acting differently).

Hopefully this helps. Don't give up on it or get frustrated. Also, you can ignore my personal bias against Fox. They make a decent product and many people seem to like them.

[hikster11]

Thanks for the links. I rode tonight with about 30% sag. It was a big difference. I think I'm between 50 and 75 psi on the front which I thought would be to low. I never bottomed out but my Oring was less than 10mm from the top so I was using most of my travel range. Im hands still got numb but not as bad. Im going to pick up some of those grips you recommend tomorrow. I had already been thinking about trying something.

Do you think one shock pump is better than another?
What pump do you use?

I want to try a different pump since I've been using my compressor I could not make adjustments unless Im home.
I think if I was riding on more rock I would want more air and want to be able to make adjustments at the trail.

Also a few times my pedal hit the ground when my suspension compressed while pedaling. The first time it happened I about ate it. Does this ever happen to you guys? Or is it just me not paying good enough attention to the trail and my pedal position?
Thanks

[neilether]

Thanks for the links. I rode tonight with about 30% sag. It was a big difference. I think I'm between 50 and 75 psi on the front which I thought would be to low. I never bottomed out but my Oring was less than 10mm from the top so I was using most of my travel range. Im hands still got numb but not as bad. Im going to pick up some of those grips you recommend tomorrow. I had already been thinking about trying something.

Do you think one shock pump is better than another?
What pump do you use?

I want to try a different pump since I've been using my compressor I could not make adjustments unless Im home.
I think if I was riding on more rock I would want more air and want to be able to make adjustments at the trail.

Also a few times my pedal hit the ground when my suspension compressed while pedaling. The first time it happened I about ate it. Does this ever happen to you guys? Or is it just me not paying good enough attention to the trail and my pedal position?
Thanks

I have 2 shock pumps, one X-Fusion brand and the other RockShox. They read about 20% different from each other. I don't know which one is "better" than the other. I would definitely find another rider that has a shock pump that you could try, or go to a shop and try one of theirs to see if there is something wrong with the pump that you bought.

As for pedal strikes, that is likely a technique problem. I do get pedal strikes from time to time and it's usually when I'm tired and am having trouble carrying momentum through technical sections. When you have to pedal through rocky sections, you need to time your pedals strokes to avoid obstacles. Much easier said than done! This is of course made much worse if you are deep into your travel.

[neilether]

The next article in the series:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/08/07/...on/#more-83465

[neilether]

4th Installment:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/08/14/...ng-air-volume/

[gholt]

After reading a few of these, I think I need to adjust my suspension. I think I have always had too much air. I'm only using about 2/3 of the front and 70% of the back.

[neilether]

After reading a few of these, I think I need to adjust my suspension. I think I have always had too much air. I'm only using about 2/3 of the front and 70% of the back.

Yes sir. I ran way too much air for a lot of years. The ride is much nicer if you're leaving almost all of your travel out on the trail.

[hikster11]

I got a Topeak Pocket DXG pump. Its works good and has a valve on the end the you can twist to push the pin in the schrader valve then releases it before removing the pump so no air loss. It says I'm running 70 lbs. I'm using all my travel now and it feels much better.