Facebook Deletes Cheerleaders Hunting Photos

[oldno7]

http://www.rhinoresourcecenter.com/i...&id=1165242779

[Scott P]

Now if your jealous of her dad spending his money on a great trip with his daughter, I can't help you.

Actually, I just stated how much it cost to hunt these animals, which is not a complaint.

I agree that it was legal for her to do so.

So I guess it comes down to you're either pro hunting or anti-hunting...

To tell you the truth, I am pro-hunting, as long as done responsibly and if the animal is used for food (or to save food supplies). I am only anti-hunting if done purely for pleasure and if the animal is wasted.

I do know that in some cases on these hunts in South Africa, the animal meat is given to the locals. I know of hunters that claim that it that way they are helping the locals. On the other hand, many of the locals resent this. It is because they have been hunting these animals for thousands of years and now they are not allowed to, but if a foreigner comes in any pays big money to the government, they are allowed to.

I do believe that it is important to save these species from extinction. As I said earlier, whether or not hunting helps can be debated from either side. Personally I wish this could be done without the hunting, but I also agree that the biggest threat to the animals is from poachers rather than legal hunts.

One thing I assume we do agree on is that it is good that the numbers of some of these animals have been increasing. Whether or not they are near threatened or endangered, hopefully the trend will continue.

[Iceaxe]

To tell you the truth, I am pro-hunting, as long as done responsibly and if the animal is used for food (or to save food supplies). I am only anti-hunting if done purely for pleasure and if the animal is wasted.

Probably 99% of the hunting done in the US is done for pleasure. While responsible hunters do use the meat it is not really a cost efficient method of supplying food. After taking into account the total costs of a hunting trip (license, gas, ammo, food, etc) most hunters find it's cheaper to just walk down to the local supermarket to stock the freezer if the goal is only to supply food.

Hunting does have a place in the modern world in addition to recreation as it is used to control and manage the species. In many places you will discover that hunters (or their money from licenses) are the ones responsible for establishing herds that were eradicated in the early 1900's.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[oldno7]

Out of all those who would criticize and threaten this gal,how much money have they contributed to wildlife conservation?

Certainly no hard number could be found but I would venture a guess that their cumulative contributions, combined, are less than this

gal and her families.

Her claim of hunters footing the bill for wildlife conservation is very valid!

[cchoc]

I'm pro hunting but don't respect all hunters; trophy hunters and poachers, for example, although a case can be made for each. It's laughable that there are people who think if you don't approve of a certain type of hunting or hunter that you are 100% anti hunting.


Wonder what the rhino tasted like?

[oldno7]

I'm pro hunting but don't respect all hunters; trophy hunters and poachers,

So you classify poachers, who are no more than criminals, as hunters?

[Scott P]

So you classify poachers, who are no more than criminals, as hunters?

Why not? It seems that you classify anyone who has different ideas on hunting to be anti-hunting. Don't you classify anyone who doesn't agree with you 100% as being liberal? What's the difference?

For example, the LDS Church is against hunting merely for pleasure. Are they as a whole, liberal?

[cchoc]

So you classify poachers, who are no more than criminals, as hunters?

Of course poaching is a part of hunting. Most poachers that get caught are just dumb and weren't criminals up to the point they violated the law. Poachers who go after trophies are just criminals and they and their clients deserve the full force of the law.

[Scott P]

Most poachers that get caught are just dumb and weren't criminals up to the point they violated the law.

Most of them in Africa (or much of Asia) do it for money and as a pre-meditated crime. Ivory and rhino horn can be sold for big money on the black market. The poachers that shoot these animals only cut off the horns or tusks and leave the rest to rot. Things like tiger penis, etc. are used in folk medicine and are worth big money on the black market.

Yes, technically poachers are hunters, but illegal ones, and are much bigger threat to wildlife populations than are the legal hunters.

[cchoc]

I understand poaching in Africa is much different than in the US. I should of made it clear I was talking about the US variety.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[oldno7]

Why not? It seems that you classify anyone who has different ideas on hunting to be anti-hunting. Don't you classify anyone who doesn't agree with you 100% as being liberal? What's the difference?

For example, the LDS Church is against hunting merely for pleasure. Are they as a whole, liberal?

ahh-makes perfect sense..

So you classify a bank robber as a mere bank customer?

Both are there to make a withdrawal.

One does it through a legal transaction, the other through an illegal act.

So both are merely bank patrons...

got it....


ohh-and what the Mormon church's position on hunting is, matters not to me...

So poaching is a religious thing?

[oldno7]

Rhinos and leopards definitely are endangered.

.

The only thing endangered with this statement is, knowledge.

Somewhat a blanket statement as the animals in question are NOT endangered species.

But you could insert black rhino or snow leopard and have a point but this gal shot neither.

[Scott P]

Somewhat a blanket statement as the animals in question are NOT endangered species.

Fair enough since some criteria define them as "threatened" or "near threatened". Last year they were added into the United States Endangered Species act as threatened. I will edit the post and even agree with you that threatened or near threatened is the more proper term.

PS, I never said poachers were the same as legal hunters.

The dictionary definition of poaching is as follows:

Poaching is the illegal hunting, killing, or capturing of wild animals.

Illegal hunting = poaching.

ohh-and what the Mormon church's position on hunting is, matters not to me...

So poaching is a religious thing?

No. It was just an example of how not all groups that are against certain types of hunting are automatically left leaning or liberals. Since I am LDS and am familiar with it, it sounded like a good example.

[oldno7]

No. It was just an example of how not all groups that are against certain types of hunting are automatically left leaning or liberals. Since I am LDS and am familiar with it, it sounded like a good example.

Seems like fighting a fire with a can of gas but carry on......

btw--growing up in Utah I've been around 100's of Mormons who have no problem killing for sport and I'm sure the number in actuality is

exponentially higher(tens of thousands--hundreds of thousands--million's?)

I would also group most all hunters into the column of sport/pleasure hunters.

As Shane stated--there is no logical reason to claim one is a meat hunter. The dollars don't add up. Grocery stores are much cheaper than hunting when all expenses are figured in.

So are you expecting a mass excommunication over this?(gas--we need more gas....)

[oldno7]

Seems like what you stated about Mormon's not hunting for pleasure is not right.

This outfitter hunts on deseret Land and Livestock ranch, owned by the LDS church. http://www.wildcountryoutfitters.com/hunting.html

They advertise for large antlers/horns, why not advertise for pounds of meat if pleasure hunting isn't allowed?

There certainly could be no pleasure in roughing it at DLL in a 7500 sq. ft. lodge, yep--meat hunters for sure.

[oldno7]

Interesting read, excerpts from the Deseret news in 2000

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/...13579&p=335873

Keep in mind--I have no problem with anyone who hunts for sport, Scott just mentioned the church is against it.

If I had spare money, I'd love to hunt on DLL.

[Scott P]

Seems like what you stated about Mormon's not hunting for pleasure is not right.

I said hunting strictly for pleasure is what they are against. If you eat the meat instead of wasting it, it is considered to be OK (though meat is supposed it be eaten sparingly). Cost is irrelevant. I'm not a vegetarian, but if I were would there be a distinction between eating lobster and eating hamburger?

You can find many references on the Church website. Here is just one example directly from the LDS Church's prophets (this is from the official Church website itself and from President Kimball, but with other references to other Church leaders and doctrine):

https://www.lds.org/general-conferen...-live?lang=eng

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“And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” (Gen. 1:20, 29–31.)

I read at the priesthood meeting at the last conference the words to the verse of the song years ago, “Don’t Kill the Little Birds,” with which I was familiar when I was a child growing up in Arizona. I found many young boys around my age who, with their flippers and their slings, destroyed many birds.

In Primary and Sunday School we sang the song:

Don’t kill the little birds
That sing on bush and tree,
All thro’ the summer days,
Their sweetest melody.

As I was talking to the young men at that time all over the world, I felt that I should say something more along this line.

I suppose in every country in the world there are beautiful little birds with their beautiful plumage and their attractive songs.

I remember that my predecessor, President Joseph Fielding Smith, was a protector of these feathered and other wild life creatures.
While President Smith at one time was in the Wasatch Mountain Area, he befriended the creatures from the hill and forest. He composed four little verses as follows, and opposite each he drew a little picture. Of the mountain squirrel first, he wrote:

This is little Chopper Squirrel
Up in the mountains high.
He begs us for some grains of corn,
With thanks he says goodbye.

And then the bat was next:

This is little Tommy Bat
Who flies around at night.
He eats the bugs and ‘skeeters’ too,
Which is a thing quite right.

Then he came to the deer:

This is little Bambi Deer
Who comes to the cabin homes.
She licks the salt we feed to her,
And on the mountain roams.

And then the birds:

This, our little feathered friend
Who sings for us all day.
When comes the winter and the cold,
He wisely flies away.

Now, I also would like to add some of my feelings concerning the unnecessary shedding of blood and destruction of life. I think that every soul should be impressed by the sentiments that have been expressed here by the prophets.

And not less with reference to the killing of innocent birds is the wildlife of our country that live upon the vermin that are indeed enemies to the farmer and to mankind. It is not only wicked to destroy them, it is a shame, in my opinion. I think that this principle should extend not only to the bird life but to the life of all animals. For that purpose I read the scripture where the Lord gave us all the animals. Seemingly, he thought it was important that all these animals be on the earth for our use and encouragement.

President Joseph F. Smith said, “When I visited, a few years ago, the Yellowstone National Park, and saw in the streams and the beautiful lakes, birds swimming quite fearless of man, allowing passers-by to approach them as closely almost as tame birds, and apprehending no fear of them, and when I saw droves of beautiful deer [feeding] along the side of the road, as fearless of the presence of men as any domestic animal, it filled my heart with a degree of peace and joy that seemed to be almost a foretaste of that period hoped for when there shall be none to hurt and none to molest in all the land, especially among all the inhabitants of Zion. These same birds, if they were to visit other regions, inhabited by man, would, on account of their tameness, doubtless become more easily a prey to the gunner. The same may be said of those beautiful creatures—the deer and the antelope. If they should wander out of the park, beyond the protection that is established there for these animals, they would become, of course, an easy prey to those who were seeking their lives. I never could see why a man should be imbued with a blood-thirsty desire to kill and destroy animal life. I have known men—and they still exist among us—who enjoy what is, to them, the ‘sport’ of hunting birds and slaying them by the hundreds, and who will come in after a day’s sport, boasting of how many harmless birds they have had the skill to slaughter, and day after day, during the season when it is lawful for men to hunt and kill (the birds having had a season of protection and not apprehending danger) go out by scores or hundreds, and you may hear their guns early in the morning on the day of the opening, as if great armies had met in battle; and the terrible work of slaughtering the innocent birds goes on.

“I do not believe any man should kill animals or birds unless he needs them for food, and then he should not kill innocent little birds that are not intended for food for man. I think it is wicked for men to thirst in their souls to kill almost everything which possesses animal life. It is wrong, and I have been surprised at prominent men whom I have seen whose very souls seemed to be athirst for the shedding of animal blood.” (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1939, pp. 265–66.)

One of the poets stated in this connection:

Take not away the life you cannot give,
For all things have an equal right to live.

—and I might add there also, because God gave it to them, and they were to be used only, as I understand, for food and to supply the needs of men.

It is quite a different matter when a pioneer crossing the plains would kill a buffalo to bring food to his children and his family. There were also those vicious men who would kill buffalo only for their tongues and skins, permitting the life to be sacrificed and the food also to be wasted.

When asked how he governed so many people, the Prophet Joseph Smith said, “I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.”

We look to the Prophet Joseph Smith for proper teaching. He said once: “We crossed the Embarras river and encamped on a small branch of the same about one mile west. In pitching my tent we found three massasaugas or prairie rattlesnakes, which the brethren were about to kill, but I said, ‘Let them alone—don’t hurt them! How will the serpent ever lose his venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition and continue to make war upon it? Men must become harmless, before the brute creation; and when men lose their vicious dispositions and cease to destroy the animal race, the lion and the lamb can dwell together, and the sucking child can play with the serpent in safety.’ The brethren took the serpents carefully on sticks and carried them across the creek. I exhorted the brethren not to kill a serpent, bird, or an animal of any kind during our journey unless it became necessary in order to preserve ourselves from hunger.” (History of the Church, 2:71–72.)

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PS, I also implied earlier that the meat the girl hunted when to the locals and was possibly not wasted.

[oldno7]

So, you believe all those who hunt on the church land, for incredible amounts of money,do so for meat?

Do you believe the church gets no return from these "trophy" hunts?

And make no mistake about it, if one hunts DLL, it is a trophy hunt!!!!!

So you approve of church sponsored trophy hunts that can exceed the cost of a rhino hunt in Africa?

But you wouldn't condone a young lady spending large sums of money on a African trophy hunt?

Do you need another 5 of gas to help contain this fire?

Why would anyone drag religion into hunting


p.s.--huge racked elk meat is likely left for the locals so the meat is not wasted.

[Scott P]

So, you believe all those who hunt on the church land, for incredible amounts of money,do so for meat?

If the meat was wasted, it would be against Church policy. If the meat was wasted, then yes, I would be against it too. Eating the meat from a hunt is no different than eating it form the grocery store and it doesn't matter how much it cost (nor would it matter if it came from a hunt or grocery store). I would not be against it if the meat was not wasted. I don't know how I can make it any more clear than that.

I also never claimed that you couldn't enjoy hunting, but please look at my original comment and notice the second part after the "and" (notice that it is an and and not an or):

I am only anti-hunting if done purely for pleasure and if the animal is wasted.

But you wouldn't condone a young lady spending large sums of money on a African trophy hunt?

So far I haven't disparaged the young lady in any way. I commented on how expensive the hunts were. I have also said over and over again that it can be argued either way whether or not hunting helps conservation. (I even said that it was possible that the meat was given to locals).

Why would anyone drag religion into hunting

In this case, the religion wasn't meant to be the point. The point was that being against certain kinds of hunting doesn't mean you are a liberal or left (I used a generally conservative group as an example). Are you against unregulated hunting of rhinos? If you are does that make you anti-hunting? I'm guessing not.

[accadacca]