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Thread: Who took out the bolt on the last rap in Alcatraz?

  1. #1

    Who took out the bolt on the last rap in Alcatraz?

    You are a dumbass.
    The man thong is wrong.

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  3. #2
    Which rap was it at? There are only two raps in Alcatraz, one off the bumper and one above the semi-keeper pothole. There used to be an old bolt somewhere down canyon of this, but it's not a place that was normally rappelled. Is this the place?

    I've heard that there were at least three other new bolts in other places in Alcatraz, but they were in places that had easy downclimbs, rather than rappels. I also heard that those were removed (last year). It was in a trip report and a thread both before and after the removal. At the time it seems that most everyone was in favor of the removal.

    Which location are you referring to by chance? The "last rappel in Alcatraz" means at the pothole near the beginning perhaps? There was a new piton that was removed there as well.

    The "last rappel in Alctaraz" might refer to more than one location? Most people I know (and probably most doing the canyon) only do two rappels, one of the bumper and one at the pothole.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  4. #3
    Trail Master skiclimb3287's Avatar
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    I recall seeing a TR on here last year that the ancient bolt above the downclimb down the chute had been removed, but don't recall from who. Pretty easy down climb, especially using a partner assist. As Scott said, there never were bolts at either of the two rappels.

    No need for name calling. There was much praise for it if I recall correctly and I don't remember seeing any other complaints on this in the past. Seems like most accepted it as the best thing and never saw any issue with it. That being said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    ...why do I sense another bolt war coming on...

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  5. #4
    @Slot Machine removed the bolt at the downclimb right before the crux that used to have a handline on it. It is a fairly easy downclimb. I completely agree with the removal of the bolt.

  6. #5
    The Roost is considered a bolt free environment by many, and all bolts will be removed, If you don't like that please stick to the kiddie canyons in Zion, Moab and the Swell.

    If you are expecting to find a bolt in the Roost, even if one was once there, you are a dumbass.

    Any questions?


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  8. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    The Roost is considered a bolt free environment by many, and all bolts will be removed, If you don't like that please stick to the kiddie canyons in Zion, Moab and the Swell.

    If you are expecting to find a bolt in the Roost, even if one was once there, you are a dumbass.

    Any questions?

    ^^^THIS^^^


    LNT

  9. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    The Roost is considered a bolt free environment by many, and all bolts will be removed, If you don't like that please stick to the kiddie canyons in Zion, Moab and the Swell.

    If you are expecting to find a bolt in the Roost, even if one was once there, you are a dumbass.

    Any questions?

    I don't know how to put a bolt in, nor remove one. We ran into a bolt in Big Spring West a couple weeks ago that seemed quite unnecessary, and like usual we just kept moving thru the canyon, didn't try to remove it and didn't say anything about it. What is the right thing to do?

  10. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by davehuth View Post
    What is the right thing to do?
    Dial B11 & report immediately

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  12. #9
    The Roost is a beautiful and rugged and wild area. In order to maintain these properties it is important to take reasonable efforts to cover ones tracks and to leave no trace behind when we visit.

    I've never come across a canyon in The Roost where I felt a bolt was necessary for a safe descent. They are a hunk of metal left behind by humans in the wild, where they have no place.

    Personally, my aversion to bolts is more of an emotional than a logical one. To me the permanency of a bolt has always represented human domination over slot canyons which I think is a dangerous and disrespectful and destructive idea.

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  14. #10
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Great to hear that the atrocious bolts have been removed from da canyon. That old bolt was timebomb waiting to talus-food an unwary traveler.

    Tom

  15. #11
    "Talus-food" Haha!
    That is being added to my lexicon.


    LNT

  16. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by davehuth View Post
    didn't try to remove it and didn't say anything about it. What is the right thing to do?
    In my opinion, yes.

    I crack up at those folks that get their panties in a wad over a stinking bolt. Every single time I've dove into an unknown canyon and found a bolt, I say "Right on! Now I don't have to fish around for rocks.

    I'm all about wilderness, let me tell ya. But to me, if these slots are going to be done, then having them safer for descent is fine with me. Of course I'm not advocating for zip lines or anything like that, but a dinky little bolt is hardly a goin' concern.

    I know that virtually all canyons can be descended without bolts, but there's all kinds of idiots out there doing all kinds of stupid stuff.
    The end of the world for some...
    The foundation of paradise for others.

  17. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    I crack up at those folks that get their panties in a wad over a stinking bolt. Every single time I've dove into an unknown canyon and found a bolt, I say "Right on! Now I don't have to fish around for rocks.
    Typical noob attitude.....

    Let me know how you feel in 10 or 20 years, after you have been canyoneering the same awesome canyon year after year and than you show up one day and discover someone has dumbed down a route you previously considered a classic.

    I will guarantee you at that moment you will feel the same sadness and loathing of bolts that you now hear from the grey beards.

    Those of you fairly new to the sport (started doing it in the last 10 years) owe a giant thank you to the grey beards that have fought the same bolt battle for years. Because of their efforts some of you get to descended slots just as the pioneers found them.

    Some of the grey beards will be aging out of the sport in the near future and it's up to those now entering the sport to preserve the canyons. I hope you are up to the challenge.


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  19. #14
    This thread reminds me of what is happening around here with our mountain-bike trails being "sanitized" (obstacles removed and the trail being made boring and un-challenging). The noobs sanitize, the experts want the trails to remain challenging. The obvious equivalent here is the canyon experts want the canyons to remain bolt-free. I am not an expert, but my vote goes along with them anyway. I will continue to hone my skills to come up to the natural level of the canyon, not bolt it to bring it down to my current level. With that, I would have to say the original post is pretty offensive.

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  21. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Typical noob attitude.....

    Let me know how you feel in 10 or 20 years, after you have been canyoneering the same awesome canyon year after year and than you show up one day and discover someone has dumbed down a route you previously considered a classic.
    I have been canyoneering for 20 years, Iceaxe...and prior to 2005 I ran into lots of bolts...installed by the vaulted "grey beards".

    Everyone has their hot buttons, of course. Personally, I'm more bothered by a pile of human crap and a wad of buttwipe than a piece of (convenient) metal.
    The end of the world for some...
    The foundation of paradise for others.

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  23. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    I have been canyoneering for 20 years, Iceaxe...and prior to 2005 I ran into lots of bolts...installed by the vaulted "grey beards".

    Everyone has their hot buttons, of course. Personally, I'm more bothered by a pile of human crap and a wad of buttwipe than a piece of (convenient) metal.
    Yes, there is even footage of Turville putting in bolts back in the day,
    but as to the human waste issue,
    I would hope no one likes seeing THAT in canyons... surely everyone agrees on that?

    but this point comes across like a

  24. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    Which rap was it at? There are only two raps in Alcatraz, one off the bumper and one above the semi-keeper pothole. There used to be an old bolt somewhere down canyon of this, but it's not a place that was normally rappelled. Is this the place?
    Sorry, should have said handline/rap/downclimb. I think it was the very last bolt in the canyon down the flute.
    The man thong is wrong.

  25. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    The Roost is considered a bolt free environment by many, and all bolts will be removed, If you don't like that please stick to the kiddie canyons in Zion, Moab and the Swell.
    Isn't Alcatraz a kiddie canyon? Nothing too difficult in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    If you are expecting to find a bolt in the Roost, even if one was once there, you are a dumbass.
    There isn't much in the near area to make a deadman. From what I remember. It wasn't me that I got the report from so I'm working off memory here. Guess I will take my bolt kit down next time. I thought it was a good place for a bolt to assist the downclimb or set up a quick rap. It was out of the water way and doesn't make any more of an eye sore than the webbing used on a dead man or other anchor. If I remember right it was a hanger and rapid.
    The man thong is wrong.

  26. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by skiclimb3287 View Post
    I recall seeing a TR on here last year that the ancient bolt above the downclimb down the chute had been removed, but don't recall from who. Pretty easy down climb, especially using a partner assist. As Scott said, there never were bolts at either of the two rappels.

    No need for name calling. There was much praise for it if I recall correctly and I don't remember seeing any other complaints on this in the past. Seems like most accepted it as the best thing and never saw any issue with it. That being said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    ...why do I sense another bolt war coming on...
    Bogley is a very very small fraction of the canyoneering community.
    The man thong is wrong.

  27. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    Great to hear that the atrocious bolts have been removed from da canyon. That old bolt was timebomb waiting to talus-food an unwary traveler.

    Tom
    I will replace it with a solid bolt next time I'm there. That is what you are saying right?
    The man thong is wrong.

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