Granary Canyon, Uturn and... where did the granary go?! Bonus stone knot failure.

[moab mark]

Sorry didn't see your earlier post my bad.

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[ratagonia]

Sorry didn't see your earlier post my bad.

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Rough and Tumble, man. Good to see you're on top of things!

Tom

[dentedvw]

Rock of Ages, gotcha.
Last rap wasn't too bad, it was nice that there was an anchor above to get to those, though it was looking pretty beat. Good enough for stepping down, super sketch if you don't know that's what you are supposed to do to go find the other anchors. But, once you are on the edge, you couldn't miss the bolt hangers.

What I meant earlier about exposure was sun/wind/blowing sand. But, maybe it's not always as windy as when we were there. I did hear of a wind advisory as we were pulling out of the area. I agree about the chains rubbing, good point. Better to travel with extra webbing and be prepared to replace as necessary. :)

[moab mark]

First rap pic is Pool Arch. Anchor is a Juniper, for better or worse.
Second pic of me standing at anchors is the last rap on what I thought was called Granary Canyon AKA Pool Arch Canyon, if what I was told is right.
Last handful of pics are from what I thought was named Uturn.
Again, I have only personal experience on them, I haven't consulted any books, if there are any. So, names may be wrong? Could be. Feel free to correct me, it's good to know. :)
By looking at your picture when walking out in the dark I think you did tierdrop? U turn is to the right of tierdrop.

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[moab mark]

If you want to do a bit of research go to climb Utah and look at the pics for each route. Shane has the beta there for most of the Moab stuff.

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[Byron]

Cool thread.

[hank moon]

Upward Stone good. Downward Stone not good.

The first trip I did where the FiddleStick was in use, a guy anchored a drop using a DownStone.

It jammed just like the one pictured above.

Fortunately, we were able to find a safe way back to the anchor, re-rig with an UpStone, which did not jam.

Yay.

[hikster11]

All those pics look like ROA?

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Agree

[canyondevil]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the UP vs DOWN and why it will occasionally not release in the DOWN can be found here:

http://bluugnome.com/cyn_how-to/gear...stoneknot.aspx

[deagol]

Luke's website has great info on this stuff...
I put it to test last October in a small short un-named (to my knowledge) canyon near Moab before using it all day in Granary. It worked flawlessly. On the last drop, we rigged to fixed anchor and descended at dusk.. kinda spooky. We did not see the Granary, but rapped down a different face, so no surprise there..

[harness man]

Smooth Operators / Fiddle Sticks scare the ----- out of me, but recently Luke brought some Smooth Operators over to test on our pull-test machine.



The results were VERY confidence inspiring- in all tests under extreme load the Smooth Operator would ultimately bend, but never break: the rope would fail first!
I may have to start using one in the canyons...Some one should get Luke to post: he has photos and Video...

[hank moon]

Smooth Operators / Fiddle Sticks scare the ----- out of me, but recently Luke brought some Smooth Operators over to test on our pull-test machine.

The results were VERY confidence inspiring- in all tests under extreme load the Smooth Operator would ultimately bend, but never break: the rope would fail first!
I may have to start using one in the canyons...Some one should get Luke to post: he has photos and Video...

Good to hear.

Now there's just those other, more worrisome failure modes:

FiddleStuck (inability to recover the rope after everyone is down)
FiddleFly (the stick releases the Stone while someone is on rope)

SoJammed?
SmoothSailing?

Impeccable technique + decision-making is essential to mitigate risk whilst FiddleSticking

[deagol]

Smooth Operators / Fiddle Sticks scare the ----- out of me, but recently Luke brought some Smooth Operators over to test on our pull-test machine.

The results were VERY confidence inspiring- in all tests under extreme load the Smooth Operator would ultimately bend, but never break: the rope would fail first!
I may have to start using one in the canyons...Some one should get Luke to post: he has photos and Video...

Thanks for posting this !!

Hank, has "Fiddlefly" ever happened? If so, do you know why?

I have used both the Fiddlestick and the Smooth Operator and now use only the Smooth Operator. I follow Luke's procedure in using 2 safety biners to prevent the stick from coming out for all but LAPAR. Also he suggests deploying the pull cord before LAPAR when the safety biners are still in place so a prior rappeler can situate the pull cord properly (and it is still locked into the anchor). The LAPAR then only needs to rappel, as the pull cord has been properly deployed prior to that. This doesn't guarantee lack of any other human error, but decreases the chances of something like "fiddlefly" as far as my experience goes.

[hank moon]

Thanks for posting this !!

Hank, has "Fiddlefly" ever happened? If so, do you know why?

I have used both the Fiddlestick and the Smooth Operator and now use only the Smooth Operator. I follow Luke's procedure in using 2 safety biners to prevent the stick from coming out for all but LAPAR. Also he suggests deploying the pull cord before LAPAR when the safety biners are still in place so a prior rappeler can situate the pull cord properly (and it is still locked into the anchor). The LAPAR then only needs to rappel, as the pull cord has been properly deployed prior to that. This doesn't guarantee lack of any other human error, but decreases the chances of something like "fiddlefly" as far as my experience goes.

FiddleFly hasn't happened, AFAIK. Hope it doesn't!

[deagol]

FiddleFly hasn't happened, AFAIK....

OK, good to hear

.... Hope it doesn't!

+1

[dougr]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the UP vs DOWN and why it will occasionally not release in the DOWN can be found here:

http://bluugnome.com/cyn_how-to/gear...stoneknot.aspx

Exactly what I was thinking, mistied stone. But maybe this (from the site)...

Good



Bad

[moabmatt]

Or someone could have just done a little better job of establishing the original anchors. It's not like there is a shortage of possibilities.


There is a big tree at the top that is obvious and simple, the first guys used it and everyone else followed suit. The original two-stage rappel should have been broken up into two sections long ago.


The first time I went through the canyon I thought about establishing better anchors and correcting the two-stage rappel.... but it was late, I was tired, there was beer in the truck at the bottom, yada, yada.....


It's nice to see someone has corrected the problem. Now if some good citizen will go over and fix the shitty lean-too anchors on Rock of Ages the Moab routes will be in great shape.

Regarding the last rap anchor in Granary...

The "first guys" still use it. It's worked fine for us since 1996, so we're not really sure what the "problem" is? Since you mentioned rope grooves I'm guessing you're referring to a hard retrieval? From day one we've rigged our webbing so the rapide hangs over the lip. Pulls like butter and no grooves. Sadly, few people nowadays seem to think or care enough to do this, as our webbing gets rerigged often. Inevitably their retrievals are unnecessarily difficult, grooves unnecessarily result and people then complain about the "problem."

There really is no problem here. It's just like the hundreds or thousands of other sitting-start rappels out there on the Plateau. To makes things easier, all but the last person down get a "courtesy anchor" tied into the webbing so they do not have to go over the edge before loading the rope. Simply clip into the rope, sit down and scoot off the edge on your hip. There is a ledge about five feet down from the lip that helps this sitting-start technique, too. The last person down has it just as easy. After untying the courtesy anchor, clip in, sit down and slide over the edge. You can hold on to the webbing and get a foot jam in the crack to help ease down to that ledge five feet down, if necessary. Once on the ledge the webbing and rapide are now over the edge and out of the crack. The rope will pull easy and smooth.

Also, there is nothing on that big shelf halfway down that you could either rig to or bolt that will make this rappel easier (again, not that it's hard in the first place). Breaking it up into two stages, with bolts or otherwise, will do nothing beneficial for you, the rope or the pull. If anything it will complicate an otherwise straightforward rappel. The edge of that shelf is too rounded to make a second station down there easy. Just have the last guy down put that rapide over the lip at the top and rap all the way to the ground.

[flatiron]

Did GC few years ago and last rap was exactly like Matt describes. Webbing was long enough so rapide was over the lip. The ledge 5' down actually makes it very easy to set up. Just make sure your rope has not shrunk!!