Smoking Weed in Pine Creek?

[oldno7]

Regarding the effects of marijuana impairment on ones ability to canyoneer... I think it's different for everyone.
Last week a college student ate too much marijuana and jumped off a building to his death here in Denver, contrast this with a 2009 trip report where the group "medicates" multiples times while descending Sandthrax and it is apparent that MJ can have hugely different effects on different people... I'd say it's up to the individual to know their own body and mind.

Said individual, medicated himself to an early death on a Colorado Mtn. if I recall....

[ratagonia]

I can't even believe we are having this conversation. We all know that drugs and alcohol are not good for our bodies. I don't care who you are, you body is better without consuming that stuff, ever. especially while canyoneering. Just leave it home or in the truck to enjoy after the canyon if you must consume it. I don't need or want to deal with high or drunk canyoneers in a canyon. not ever.

I think it is a Mark Twain quote:

"It's not so much the things that people don't know that screws things up. It's more the things they know that just aren't true!"


I realize you may think that True, Kuya. And I accept that the same is true for you, and likely most of the people you hang out with. But it is definitely not true for ALL members of this forum, including me.

Tom

[Kuya]

I think it is a Mark Twain quote:

"It's not so much the things that people don't know that screws things up. It's more the things they know that just aren't true!"


I realize you may think that True, Kuya. And I accept that the same is true for you, and likely most of the people you hang out with. But it is definitely not true for ALL members of this forum, including me.

Tom

Hi Tom. Feel free to do what you like after your adventure, but I'd rather not put my life in the hands of those who are "high" or "drunk" while we are in the canyon. Even if that person was as skilled as you. I would hope to high heaven that you don't go into canyons drunk or high!


Anyway... let's list some of the effects of drinking alcohol:

Slurred speech
Drowsiness
Vomiting
Diarrhea
Upset stomach
Headaches
Breathing difficulties
Distorted vision and hearing
Impaired judgment
Decreased perception and coordination
Unconsciousness
Anemia (loss of red blood cells)
Coma
Blackouts (memory lapses, where the drinker cannot remember events that occurred while under the influence)
Unintentional injuries such as car crash, falls, burns, drowning
Intentional injuries such as firearm injuries, sexual assault, domestic violence
Increased on-the-job injuries and loss of productivity
Increased family problems, broken relationships
Alcohol poisoning
High blood pressure, stroke, and other heart-related diseases
Liver disease
Nerve damage
Sexual problems
Permanent damage to the brain
Vitamin B1 deficiency, which can lead to a disorder characterized by amnesia, apathy and disorientation
Ulcers
Gastritis (inflammation of stomach walls)
Malnutrition
Cancer of the mouth and throat



While we are at it, lets list some the negative effects of Marijuana:

Poor memory and ability to learn
Difficulty in thinking and solving problems
Poor muscle coordination and judgment
Short attention span
Dangerous driving behavior
Altered sense of time and space
Food cravings
Hallucinations
Delusions
Poor memory
Not knowing where one is
Anxiety attacks or feelings of paranoia
Depression
Cancer. Marijuana contains the same cancer-causing chemicals found in tobacco smoke.
Breathing problems. It creates the same kinds of breathing problems that cigarettes do: coughing and wheezing.
Immune system. The THC in marijuana can damage the cells and tissues in the body that help protect against disease.
Memory, learning, and energy are impaired.
Fertility. Reproductive hormones are decreased. In men, there is less testosterone, causing decreased sperm counts and possible erectile dysfunction. In women, there may be irregular periods. Both problems would result in a decreased ability to conceive but not lead to complete infertility.
Birth defects in unborn children.



Man! These side effect sure do look like somthing I would want in my my life! especially when I get into technical canyons


I don't personally have a problem with people who drink after a hard days work. I'll gladly sit around a campfire, or eat a nice dinner with friends who enjoy a beer or three... but to say that my health and fitness will be better off if I start drinking and doing drugs is nuts. I would like to see sound evidence of that claim. And to think that some in this community welcome it in trade route canyons is crazy too! the last thing I want to deal with is a bunch of drunk or "high" canyoneers in places like Pinecreek.

[deagol]

So do farts....you should go online and complain about that too.

I didn't start the thread..

[Brian in SLC]

Hi Tom. Feel free to do what you like after your adventure, but I'd rather not put my life in the hands of those who are "high" or "drunk" while we are in the canyon. Even if that person was as skilled as you. I would hope to high heaven that you don't go into canyons drunk or high!

Goodness! Everything in moderation I suppose, even being pious...

I could list the harmful effects of sugar...but...I guess I wouldn't go so far as to say I wouldn't care be in a canyon with people who consume it. That kind of broad over generalization just sounds close minded and ignorant.

So...instead of listing all the harmful effects of ignorance...I'll just link an article or two....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2146679/

http://www.bmj.com/content/334/7600/915.1

[mzamp]

A perfect time for these seldom used emoticons...

[Slot Machine]

You may be perhaps misinformed as to its effects.

Sure. About as misinformed as you are about math, physics or engineering.

Highness comes in as many different shades as drunkenness. They are not the same color, but they are both quite rangy.

Regardless, being sober seems like the only non-destructive 'shade' in a canyon. Please explain, Mr Tom, if you feel otherwise.

[Iceaxe]

I try not to waste my time worrying about what others do, I have enough to keep myself busy just keeping my life on track. I really wish I could take something, anything, meaningful away from this thread but I can't.

[Kuya]

I could list the harmful effects of sugar...but...I guess I wouldn't go so far as to say I wouldn't care be in a canyon with people who consume it. That kind of broad over generalization just sounds close minded and ignorant.

The difference here is that sugar doesn't impair your ability to think and perform. In a canyon sugar actually helps give you the energy needed to safely get through the canyon. On the flip side, even moderate amounts of alcohol or weed could make things dangerous.

I agree with you, being ignorant to issues, even sugar consumption, can be very bad for our health. but do you REALLY think is ok to descend into technical slot canyons when you're drunk or high? common guys, REALLY????

[Absolute Gravity]

Birth defects in unborn children.

Tom's child bearing years are well behind him.

[ratagonia]

Anyway... let's list some of the effects of drinking alcohol:

Well then, I must already be dead. Perhaps you should also mention zombieism!

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

The difference here is that sugar doesn't impair your ability to think and perform.

Oh, sure it does. "Sugar hinders proper absorption of many B vitamins into the body and its cells. B vitamins are necessary to endorse cognitive thinking, coordination, and memory."

Sugar is known to decrease concentration.

Sugar consumption will wash out the electrolytes in your body, causing you to cramp. Get a hand cramp while on rappel...and hope its not your brake hand.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/46...u-concentrate/


"When you eat junk food, which is typically high in fat, sugar and calories, your body digests the foods fairly quickly. Since junk food has been stripped of nutrients, your body is forced to use the sugar as energy for your body. That energy is spent quickly because of the refined nature of junk food, which means you experience a temporary "sugar high," or false feeling of energy, that is quickly followed by a "sugar crash," or a sensation of fatigue, once your metabolism has burned all of the possible energy. This can lead to bouts of focus loss, fatigue and a loss of concentration."

I agree with you, being ignorant to issues, even sugar consumption, can be very bad for our health. but do you REALLY think is ok to descend into technical slot canyons when you're drunk or high? common guys, REALLY????

Drunk, as in, really drunk? Yeah, not good methinks. Moderate use? Probably not so bad. No big deal to me. I'd canyon with someone having an occasional PBR. Heck, a good micro brewed beer is a better post recovery beverage than chocolate milk. And, there's plenty of health benefits to moderate use.

From local fitness guru Steve Edwards: "No study I can find—and I look at a lot of studies—shows that not drinking is better for you than moderate drinking when it comes to life expectancy. Not one. In fact, one major study on nearly 2,000 subjects over a 20 year period showed that even excessive drinkers out live those who abstain. Right on! Which way to the bar?"

Another fun article from Steve:

http://steveedwardsfitness.com/red-w...bing-martinis/

Take it from Arnold..."milk is for babies...when you grow up, you drink beer."



Preface this next section to mention that I'm not a pot smoker...really...I'm not. But, many folks at least in these "high risk" type activities like climbing, canyoneering, base jumping...are. And, some are chronic and common users. From my limited vantage point, it seems to increase their focus. And, there's studies out there that show an increase in focus and concentration.

Also gives some folks a huge boost in energy.

As well...some folks ingest it to avoid seizures...nausea...etc.

Speaking of sugar and insulin...:

Researchers analyzed 579 current marijuana smokers and found they had 16 percent lower fasting insulin levels than nonusers, and that their insulin resistance (a marker of diabetes) was reduced by 17 percent.

Anyhoo...I have more than a few friends who I'd have absolutely no problem climbing, canyoneering, skiing, etc with who routinely "get high". Its just who and how they are. Most if not all pefform at a much higher (ha ha) level in any of these sports than I do.

[oldno7]

This thread reminds me of a song

[Mojave Silence]

On the 17th my wife and i did pine creek and we couldn't help but smell marijuana periodically as we descended the canyon.

I didn't see anything in this thread to indicate it was actually someone descending the canyon who was smoking. Was the wind blowing up or down canyon? Could have easily been a hiker(s) who hiked up-canyon to the last rap. (?)

[cmd19]

I had always wondered how long it would be until the heavy Mormon influence of this board came out....

If you don't want to do it, then don't. But don't get preachy on those that chose to do it. I don't chose to drink when I go canyoneering (or kayaking, or skiing) but I don't come down or judge people that do. It's each person's own choice. I choose to not put my life in someone's hands if I feel that they've had a little too much, but even one or two beers isn't something to be worried about.

Most of you who are decrying marijuana are doing it from a baseless standpoint using anecdotal evidence that you've heard from other people- usually people who are sensationalizing it in an attempt to make it out to be something it's not. Bottom line, if you haven't tried it, you have no right to judge those who do it.

I personally wouldn't think of going canyoneering, kayaking, or skiing and not smoking marijuana. As a lifelong sufferer of ADHD, I find that smoking marijuana sharpens my focus and allows me to concentrate better on the task at hand. I also suffer from bad arthritis and sometimes smoking a joint (or two) allows my hands to feel better about clenching the rope.

I consider smoking marijuana in amazing natural places to be my version of church and worship. Would you be insulted if I told you not to pray inside the temple, because it negatively effects me? Yes. And don't try to tell me "that it's different", because it's not. I am rather averse to Mormons in general, in how they operate on scales large and small, but I do not tell people not to practice Mormonism simply because it bothers me. We all have our own choices in this world, and I am pretty sure part of being an American is the ability to do what you choose, including religion. Just because I am in the state of Utah does not mean I am required to be of your religion. If my church is nature, and my worship is smoking a natural plant in nature, then who are you to tell me "it's wrong"? I don't get in your face and tell you not to be a Mormon, so don't get in my face and tell me this is.

There is a time and a place for all things, and I agree that you shouldn't be doing these things in tighter, more narrow sections of canyons. Wait until you get to an open area, or do it before you drop in. But don't presume to tell me what I should do and not do just because it is not what YOU choose to do.

I kayak roughly 60 days a year. I canyoneer roughly 30 days a year. I probably ski close to 80 days a year. This has been going on for at least seven years. And I've smoked marijuana on 99.9% of those trips. Has it ever impaired my judgement? Not once. In fact, it's probably HELPED my judgement on many occasions by making me slow down and analyze the situation a bit more than I normally would. There have been several incidents on these trips, injuries, wrecks, etc, that have all required immediate, crucial decision making because someone's life was in jeopardy, and has it ever once negatively affected that? Nope. Every time the shit hits the fan we come out on top, because we armed ourselves with the knowledge and skills to handle situations like that before we left. Smoking a joint mid canyon doesn't make you simply forget months and countless hours of preparation and practice.

It's been very interesting to see the responses from different members on here. Like someone said, I wonder if Alex was just trying to see who does what. Some of them have been surprising, others are more just confirming.

It sounds like some of you are way over-estimating the effects of some lingering second hand smoke on you. Just because you caught a whiff of it doesn't mean you are going to turn into a vegetable pothead. Just play through and get over it. Like someone said, better to deal with that than watch somebody scratch their name into a wall (of which I find large Mormon family groups to be the biggest perpetrators!)

This discussion has been enlightening and I am glad to see that it hasn't devolved into petty name calling and mud slinging, which is what would have happened on many other forums. However, I feel there is a lot of ignorant and ill-informed opinions floating around, that while are yours to have freely, are not necessarily true. It is my hope that those of you who are ranting and rallying against this will realize that it isn't the complete evil that it is made out to be, and that those who chose to use it are actually quite safe, normal, and unaffected by it.

Just my two cents. And like Ice always says.....YMMV.

[Byron]

I'll out hike, out climb, out bike, out canyoneer any man east of ol'e kentuck!!!

[Sombeech]

I'll out hike, out climb, out bike, out canyoneer any man east of ol'e kentuck!!!

Well, I mean like, it can wait though, it doesn't hafta be like right now


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Scott Card]

I had always wondered how long it would be until the heavy Mormon influence of this board came out....

I am rather averse to Mormons in general, in how they operate on scales large and small, but I do not tell people not to practice Mormonism simply because it bothers me. We all have our own choices in this world, and I am pretty sure part of being an American is the ability to do what you choose, including religion. Just because I am in the state of Utah does not mean I am required to be of your religion. If my church is nature, and my worship is smoking a natural plant in nature, then who are you to tell me "it's wrong"? I don't get in your face and tell you not to be a Mormon, so don't get in my face and tell me this is.
.

I missed the "Mormon" part of the thread. Seems like you were just waiting for an opportunity to pounce when there was nothing to pounce on. Being anti marijuana does not make one Mormon. Being anti smoke in a canyon does not make one Mormon.

[deagol]

..... ....... Being anti smoke in a canyon does not make one.....

I would also add to this: being anti smoke (MJ or other kind of smoke) in a canyon (confined space) does not make one anti MJ. I don't care if you smoke, I just don't want to smell it, or have to breathe it in... That is all.

[cmd19]

I missed the "Mormon" part of the thread. Seems like you were just waiting for an opportunity to pounce when there was nothing to pounce on. Being anti marijuana does not make one Mormon. Being anti smoke in a canyon does not make one Mormon.

I am not trying to say that being anti-weed makes you a Mormon. It's no secret this board is chock full of Mormons who regularly issue comments about "praising God for creating these blessed canyons" and the like. But I don't rise up and tell you you are all full of shit; I nod and move on. Why can't you guys do the same?

I am trying to say that while the Mormon religion bothers me, you don't see or hear me blasting people who chose to do it (without provocation). Don't like people smoking? Fine, no big deal. But keep it to yourself. I find it quite bothersome to be in a slot canyon and see a family with fourteen kids (who are usually out of control and all over the place, scratching tic-tac-toe games into the rock and generally being nuisances) come around the corner. But do you see me blasting on the internet about it? No. I smile, and I play through. This is no different. You might say, "don't like to see the families out in the canyons? then stay home!" To which I will reply, "don't want to deal with an occasional smoke puff in the canyons? then stay home!" It's a two way street. I will respect your wishes, religion, and life, IF you respect mine. Telling me how I am wrong to do it and assuming I should want to live my life the way you do is not giving respect.

"Kuya"'s comments were quite childish and offensive to me, just as some of you find the weed smoking to be offensive. So, if you guys are going to bitch, so will I. But I am not going to stop.

Just as you are not going to stop going to temple and praying simply because I don't agree with your religion.

You are getting very offended over some very simple comments that are not meant to be anything other than a clear case of "you mind your own business and I will mind mine."

No, being anti-marijuana does not make one a Mormon. However, being preachy and assuming that everyone would be better off doing what YOU chose to do is a very quintessential Mormon attitude. So it is OK for you to bring up and complain about what you find offensive but when someone voices a dissenting opinion then it's suddenly not ok? Seems a bit hypocritical to me.