4/12/14 - Family Rescued from Sandthrax after 3 Days

[Taylor]

Over worked is not the problem. The problem in the rural counties is funding all the SAR's, and that is directly from the team members and their commander's.

I can see funding being an issue due to the distances they have to travel. Not so much an issue here in SL.

[ratagonia]

Over worked is not the problem. The problem in the rural counties is funding all the SAR's, and that is directly from the team members and their commander's.

Which is not our problem to solve, it is a statewide problem for a state with the population so concentrated in urban centers. We can do symbolic things like make donations, but it is really up to the state of Utah to rework how SAR is funded.

Tom

[ratagonia]

I can see funding being an issue due to the distances they have to travel. Not so much an issue here in SL.

Check this out:

Population of several Utah Counties (2010 census):

Salt Lake: 1,029,655
Utah: 516,564


Garfield: 5,175
Wayne: 2,778


Yikes!

http://www.onlineutah.com/countypopulation.shtml

Tom

[mzamp]

...but not the idea that GPS isn't reliable enough as some on here have suggested. Carry some extra damn batteries and put a couple of critical waypoints in there and you'll never be lost again.

The tools you bring (GPS, map, compass, and belay device for that matter) are only as good as the person using it.

[Scott P]

Over worked is not the problem. The problem in the rural counties is funding all the SAR's, and that is directly from the team members and their commander's.

Agreed. Besides not getting our arses rescued, what else can we be doing? I know they have fundraisers.

All these rescues are giving canyoneers a bad name. By percentage, we probably have one of the highest rescue rates of any outdoor sport out there.

Which is not our problem to solve, it is a statewide problem for a state with the population so concentrated in urban centers.

I don't know; in a way it is our problem to solve. We (canyoneers in general and anyone getting rescued) are part of the problem.

[Caverknight]

I don't think that canyoneers have a high rescue rate. I think that it is the one that the media reports on. The highest "rescues" are lost and stranded people that are just hiking down the trail or 2-5 miles with 1 pt of water and get heat stroke. Whenever a canyoneer or caver gets hurt the media always pick up on it. It place on peoples fears, It is death, being high up or in the dark or trapped or all of the above. That it makes good story that genrates lots of money for the media. I would have not had my door being pounded down by media less than 12 hours if I hadn't my kids with me or if I had just ran out of gas in goblin valley. They never report on any accidents unless it is sensationalized to meet good ratings.

[Scott P]

I don't think that canyoneers have a high rescue rate.

I would have to disagree. Compared to the relatively small percentage of people who do it, the amount of rescues is very high (though "high" can have many definitions). I think many experienced canyoneers would agree with this.

[Caverknight]

Is there anyone that has the total rescues with-in the geographic areas of where canyonneers vs hikers vs atv's vs rock climbing. There are mathematical formulas that someone could apply to see what the rates are total vs capita of person doing it. It would not be 100% accurate but it would be a snap shot.

[Iceaxe]

By percentage, we probably have one of the highest rescue rates of any outdoor sport out there.

I disagree, spend any amount of time on lake Powell and you will soon discover the Park Service is nearly always running multiple rescues at one time, and that is just one example off the top of my head. It's just that canyoneering rescues make for good multimedia news.

I know the majority of "canyoneering" rescues in Zion are really hiker rescues with broken ankles, sprained knees, getting lost. Bo probably has some great insight into Zion rescues if you ask him.

I bet the percentage of canyoneering rescues in Grand County is extremely low compared to others, especially when you add in the ATV accidents.

YMMV

[ratagonia]

Is there anyone that has the total rescues with-in the geographic areas of where canyonneers vs hikers vs atv's vs rock climbing. There are mathematical formulas that someone could apply to see what the rates are total vs capita of person doing it. It would not be 100% accurate but it would be a snap shot.

Where would we get the total number of capita doing each activity? The only people that know are the NSA, and they are reluctant to share...

Tom

[spinesnaper]

Jason

Pathetically, we are all just a small navigational accident from being in a similar situation.

Theoretically, a 5 ounce personal locator beacon activated as soon as you realized your predicament might have brought rescue much sooner.

Clearly you will recover from your situation. However, your boys are young enough that events like this can have a big impact. I want to encourage you to let them talk about the event and consider getting feedback about how the event is affecting them from teachers, coaches,etc. Are they having nightmares or exhibiting other reactions than might suggest that they are not faring as well as you are? If so, you might consider some professional help to assess them for post-traumatic stress disorder. This can be treated but it first needs to be recognized. How is their enthusiasm to go out canyoneering again?

Hope things are well and thanks for posting. Reminds me to be extra careful when I go out to do the Irish canyons.

Ken

[rnelson]

I know a bolt has appeared at the top of Sandthrax, and my raving/biased opinion is that having a bolt there makes it possible for people to say "look, there is a bolt, this must be one of the canyons that people do all the time". We hope to remove the bolt soon; and I would encourage SandThraxers to also remove any webbing they leave at that first rappel as well.

Tom

Amen to this.

[Caverknight]

They are still processing and I am making them talk about it. Erik is the one that is clammed up (as usually.) I get more details everyday. My dear wife is still trying to recover also. Talking to professional help is a good idea and we have talked about that. She knows the risk of what I do but it has never had to call out SAR. I have been on rescues situation that went bad and it killed a community of people physiologically. I do not want this to happen to my wife or boys.

As for doing things out in the wild they will go back. I am very allergic to perfumes, sunscreen, scented deodorants etc. I cannot go to the mall a movie, without getting really sick. When I go to a hiking trail with lots of people I often have to wear a mask to filter outs peoples smelly stuff. This results in us going to areas that are not visited very much. So we will be back out. It is no more dangerous camping then walking down a major city block at night. It is about knowing risks.

[spinesnaper]

As for doing things out in the wild they will go back. I am very allergic to perfumes, sunscreen, scented deodorants etc. I cannot go to the mall a movie, without getting really sick. When I go to a hiking trail with lots of people I often have to wear a mask to filter outs peoples smelly stuff. This results in us going to areas that are not visited very much. So we will be back out. It is no more dangerous camping then walking down a major city block at night. It is about knowing risks.

Hey you are preaching to the choir here. It is just that one does not want one's wilderness privileges to be cut-off by the short hairs by the spouse. I have seen it happen after serious back country events. That means minimizing hiccups. There is no substitute for a crew no matter how competent you and your boys are. Going with a group is very reassuring for loved one's left at home. Also consider investing in a personal locator beacon as I said. Also I would recommend playing down the "danger" aspect of canyoneering. As Tom Jones says, to paraphrase, canyoneering is not an extreme sport. I like to think about it as hiking with an occasional rappel and cold swim thrown in. Avoid dwelling on keeper potholes with the spouse and other esoterica like needing to saw one's arm off in a canyon for example. There are many very enthusiastic members of this community who also have young children and with a little effort, your kids can have companions and safely enjoy these beautiful canyons at the same time.

Welcome to Bogley

Ken

[lucach]

I know Jason, he used to be a caver in San Diego before he moved to Utah.
He was very passionate about outdoor adventures and I'm glad he keeps up with it, even after the mishap.
He mistakenly went into the wrong canyon... who has not done that before? He just had worse luck than any of us.
Yeah, maybe he should have taken along another adult, but as a father I know how hard it is to find other adventurous people with kids to do stuff with.

BTW, I looked at the descriptions on CanyoneeringUSA.com, it definitely does not say "WARNING: Do not confuse canyon entrances".
And judging by the new fancy web design it may appear those guys have deep pockets... just saying... :-P

[spinesnaper]

I know Jason, he used to be a caver in San Diego before he moved to Utah.
He was very passionate about outdoor adventures and I'm glad he keeps up with it, even after the mishap.
He mistakenly went into the wrong canyon... who has not done that before? He just had worse luck than any of us.
Yeah, maybe he should have taken along another adult, but as a father I know how hard it is to find other adventurous people with kids to do stuff with.

BTW, I looked at the descriptions on CanyoneeringUSA.com, it definitely does not say "WARNING: Do not confuse canyon entrances".
And judging by the new fancy web design it may appear those guys have deep pockets... just saying... :-P

That may be true, however, confusing one Irish canyon for another is a well documented phenomena out there. Maybe that is why they are called Irish canyons-easy to confuse one for another and enter the wrong draw. Irish as in The Flying Irishman: Wrong Way Corrigan. Tom Jones and Climb-Utah definitely warn regarding navigation for the Leprechaun forks. Shane has on the site a detailed story about a 2002 canyoneering group that incorrectly entered the wrong fork of Leprechaun and had to be rescued including one of the party sustained a skull fracture trying to climb out. So the community is on notice that this can occur.

The whole issue of entering the wrong canyon is also well understood and the reason that navigation skills are always emphasized in my opinion. There is also a well documented history of how solo canyoneer travel can go wrong.

I was not even going to address the issue that one adult and two young kids basically does not add up to two competent partners. I think most of the posters here have also refrained from that. Since you have raised it, I would agree that looking after young children has to be more distracting that being on one's own.

It pays to know where you are and have other competent adults with you in these canyons.

Ken

[Scott P]

I know Jason, he used to be a caver in San Diego before he moved to Utah.
He was very passionate about outdoor adventures and I'm glad he keeps up with it, even after the mishap.
He mistakenly went into the wrong canyon... who has not done that before? He just had worse luck than any of us.
Yeah, maybe he should have taken along another adult, but as a father I know how hard it is to find other adventurous people with kids to do stuff with.

BTW, I looked at the descriptions on CanyoneeringUSA.com, it definitely does not say "WARNING: Do not confuse canyon entrances".
And judging by the new fancy web design it may appear those guys have deep pockets... just saying... :-P

Gee Tom (Jones); I didn't realize that you were so rich. Next time we go canyoneering, can you share some of those "deep pockets" with us?

"WARNING: Do not confuse canyon entrances".

OK, so it doesn't say exactly that, but it does say the following:

Navigation is somewhat difficult, and it is important to get into the correct fork. The Main and West Forks look pretty similar. Follow the map carefully. Check the description of what the tops of the canyons look like, and if you are in the wrong place, get out.

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/...echaun-canyon/

Technically though, the warning applies to confusing the various forks of Leprechaun.

He mistakenly went into the wrong canyon... who has not done that before?

Most of us haven't done that before.

Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but to anyone who knows how to read a map, the mistake should have been glaring obvious. So, yes we've all made mistakes (yes; me too-some big ones) and what's done as done. Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgement. We've all been there in one way or another.

It seemed to be mostly over (and most of us were actually pretty nice about it), but it seems as though you are blaming the website. Also, the map on that website doesn't show the approach route that he was trying to follow, nor does it describe it.

Once again, here is the map on that website (the approaches are marked with arrows). The purple line (which I drew in) is the one he was trying to follow (according to him). The ridge between Leprechaun and Blarney is never described on the website, which is the route which he said intended to follow and where he thought he was.




The route the person intended to follow was never on the website, so how can you blame the website?

[Iceaxe]

I'd be very leery using the above map as the Main Fork is mislabeled. The East Fork is without doubt the main fork in all aspects except difficulty. The East Forks drainage is much great then the other forks combined.

To avoid confusion it is considered appropriate to refer to the three forks as East, Middle and West.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Scott P]

I'd be very leery using the above map as the Main Fork is mislabeled. The East Fork is without doubt the main fork in all aspects except difficulty. The East Forks drainage is much great then the other forks combined.

The "Main Fork" could be changed to "Middle Fork" on the map, but that doesn't have anything to do with the navigation on this trip. Either way, if on the intended route, you would have to skirt around the other forks before reaching the East Fork.

To avoid confusion it is considered appropriate to refer to the three forks as East, Middle and West.

If so, you both could change your maps (though they seem self explanatory to me) and that didn't add to any of the navigational error.

Anyway, I'm still confused as to why would anyone even use the route between Blarney and Leprechaun as the intended route to get to just the East Fork? It would be much easier and faster to use the eastside approach and the ridge between Leprechaun and Santhrax (which confusingly was the route that was actually used).

Your map doesn't show the ridge between Blarney and Leprechaun being used either.

Your and Tom's map both use the either the east side entrance ridge between Leprechaun and Sandthrax, or the routes go up Leprechaun nearly a mile before exiting the canyon and following the rim around to the various forks. Neither map shows the ridge between Blarney and Leprechaun being used as the route to access the canyon, but that's what route he thought he was on. None of the maps show accessing the canyons from the ridge between Blarney and Leprechaun.

[Caverknight]

I do not want this to turn into if he had only. . . .. or the websites and books are flawed. Many people have been in this area and not gotten lost some have gotten lost I really got lost. I want people to learn from this what I did wrong what I did right. How many times have everyone of "us" have done something that was against the "rules". like gone hiking by ourselves, done a climb up or down that if we fail it would result in injury, (anything over 5' can do that) not wear a helmet while climbing or belaying? Jumping off a ledge that is a bit too high. Not having fresh gear ever time we go out. Not have the standard 24 kit when hiking the "training route" or the "easy trail". Need I go on?


I knew that these canyons were confusing and people had gotten down the wrong ones. It is no big secret that this has happened in the past. This is not any website or books fault!

I do not place blame on anyone but myself. I am the one that miss navigated. I was comparing the map with description in a book and All I can say is duh on me. My navigation was bad but we have all gotten "misplaced" before.

This was not the first time my kids have gone out. They go outdoor more than most. I would not take them to dangerous places knowingly.

For lack of a better term leprechaun is a kids friendly place safer than many places in the world. It has low flash flood potential It is short it has only a few drops with easy anchors and only a few miles long. It is known for being kid friendly and is a good place to take your kids.

Do we all need 4-5 adult people in every trip like they recommend for safety?

1 to get hurt
1 to stay with the hurt
2-3 to get rescue because you should not hike alone.