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Thread: BLM controversy in Southern Utah

  1. #41
    Adventurer at Large! BruteForce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cchoc View Post
    If he was behaving like a citizen this wouldn't be happening. FYI

    A citizen of where? Iran? Seems to me he was being quite the citizen by standing his ground and that's about as patriotic as it gets. When the shit hits the fan, watch that you're not the first one hit in the face with it..
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  3. #42
    Wilderness Photographer cchoc's Avatar
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    Patriot or domestic terrorist is a matter of viewpoint. I've been on a lot of BLM land used for grazing and have no sympathy for the ranchers who abuse it.
    Charlie...
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  4. #43
    Wilderness Photographer cchoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruteForce View Post
    A citizen of where? Iran? Seems to me he was being quite the citizen by standing his ground and that's about as patriotic as it gets. When the shit hits the fan, watch that you're not the first one hit in the face with it..
    Thanks for the advice, don't forget to heed it yourself ;)
    Charlie...
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  5. #44
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cchoc View Post
    Patriot or domestic terrorist is a matter of viewpoint. I've been on a lot of BLM land used for grazing and have no sympathy for the ranchers who abuse it.
    Yet you sympathize with an agency that brings hundreds of vehicles, armed militarized "rangers" who have no problem throwing a women to the ground?

    Spends millions of tax dollars on a personal agenda of dingy harry?(money that is now gone with nothing to show)

    An agency who would put citizens who wish to voice an opinion in a compound, you support this?

    Without the second, the first amendment is dead!!!

    Have you ever heard of a thing called taxation without representation?

    A part of this story also has to do with the overreach of the endangered species act and it's misuse in a government effort to control land.

    What was proven here is without an armed citizenry, the gov. is free to go unchecked.

    And--while a gov. agency provided hostility, the armed citizenry remained in check, no shots fired and won a battle, while the war will undoubtedly rage on.
    I'm not Spartacus


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  7. #45
    Wilderness Photographer cchoc's Avatar
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    Ho hum, the only thing that was proven here is that the BLM decided to back off rather than have to shoot a bunch of confrontational idiots defending what appears to be just another welfare cheat. If this is your idea of people acting patriotic, so be it. It certainly isn't mine.

    I also have no problem with the agents dealing with 'citizens' who are just trying to provoke a confrontation, they should count themselves lucky they were a group of white Mormons and not blacks or Hispanics - things wouldn't have gone as smoothly for them. As far as I'm concerned the feds are taking care of my 'right' for people to pay to use public land.
    Charlie...
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  8. #46
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    posted on another forum(not by me)

    The power of armed citizens in numbers.

    I think it will bolster those who love freedom and scare the shit out of those who desire security.
    I'm not Spartacus


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  9. #47
    Wilderness Photographer cchoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    posted on another forum(not by me)

    The power of armed citizens in numbers.

    I think it will bolster those who love freedom and scare the shit out of those who desire security.
    Trust me, I'm an armed citizen. I would go a lot farther out of my way to protect your freedoms than any of the 'protesters' there would, I'm sure. I've never been tased, but I know what teargas smells like and have been spit on by folks who looked and sounded exactly like those defending the FLDS rancher, and have been herded around by the 'authorities' as well back in the day.

    The lightweights in this confrontation just want something for nothing and it's sad that people have seized upon this as an example of why we need the 2nd amendment. It is certainly their right to protest peacefully, but at the first hint that they mean violence the feds should put all their asses on the ground and if they (the protesters) choose to use weapons they have chosen their fate as well.

    YMMV, of course.
    Charlie...
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  10. #48
    Just went down to ye local gun shoppe to stock up on bullets. They said there has been another uptick in sales due to the latest Bundy vs. BLM confrontation.

    Interesting...
    It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.

  11. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by cchoc View Post
    It is certainly their right to protest peacefully, but at the first hint that they mean violence the feds should put all their asses on the ground and if they (the protesters) choose to use weapons they have chosen their fate as well.

    YMMV, of course.

    I think the armed citizenry who showed up did so without intention of firing the first shot. But definitely were prepared to fire the second.
    It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.

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  13. #50
    Wilderness Photographer cchoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin View Post
    I think the armed citizenry who showed up did so without intention of firing the first shot.
    That I doubt, but it's a nice thing to believe.
    Charlie...
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  14. #51
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    cchoc--
    Heres a link to the sites that the obama administration has proposed for some type of solar power.
    http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/ene..._projects.html

    Would you be aware that these facilities require huge amounts of water?

    Could you possibly see where the Bundy ranch has deeds to this much needed water?
    I'm not Spartacus


    It'll come back.


    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

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  15. #52
    Wilderness Photographer cchoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    cchoc--
    Heres a link to the sites that the obama administration has proposed for some type of solar power.
    http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/ene..._projects.html

    Would you be aware that these facilities require huge amounts of water?

    Could you possibly see where the Bundy ranch has deeds to this much needed water?
    Are you asking me to choose between solar power and this rancher? Easy peasy.

    I hope the guy doesn't come to harm but honestly other than that I don't give a rat's ass about him and his. If this continues to be a contentious rallying point for the militias the blood is on his hands not the feds.
    Charlie...
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  16. #53
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    I'm not asking you to "choose" anything.

    I'm pointing out "facts" of record.

    By doing so, I would at least hope you can see that there is much more involved here than cows.

    Maybe by doing so, you might also see the ease in which large companies have gotten EIS's passed.

    Most of these in "turtle habitat"

    I'm merely suggesting, sometimes the title on a book cover, doesn't accurately describe whats inside the book.
    I'm not Spartacus


    It'll come back.


    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  17. #54
    Wilderness Photographer cchoc's Avatar
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    I like that you used "facts" in quotes.

    I know it's a complicated issue, but don't forget all that have been displaced by eminent domain, not to mention manifest destiny and other claptrap used to justify taking land from someone.

    No matter how hard I study the "facts" I can't make him out as the victim, just another government welfare cheat. Him claiming his rights predate the department of interior are laughable - ask the folks his family displaced or killed to get the land in the first place. His cattle are grazing on my land, I guess that gives me the 'right' to go out and harvest a few. Been a few years since I worked in a meat packing plant but I still remember the basics; a few sharp knives and a chain saw should do the trick.

    I'm sure he has a nice little chubby from folks taking up his cause, but I'm not a part of it.
    Charlie...
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  18. #55
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    You're hung up on one guy--I'm hung up on gov. overreach.

    As a side test, I'm sure you know the answers---

    Who writes the land use laws that the blm enforces?

    Who is the blm accountable to?
    I'm not Spartacus


    It'll come back.


    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  19. #56
    Wilderness Photographer cchoc's Avatar
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    I don't see this situation as government overreach and you do, so the only thing this discussion *can* be about is this one guy. If you have a hard on for Obama that's your personal problem and of no concern to me.
    Charlie...
    Stalking Light

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  21. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin View Post
    Just went down to ye local gun shoppe to stock up on bullets.
    Nothing could be worse long term for gun owners then turning this clusterf**k into a second amendment issue.

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  23. #58
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Nothing could be worse long term for gun owners then turning this clusterf**k into a second amendment issue.

    You're right, it was only a First Amendment issue, the rest of the Bill of Rights should be abolished.

    Good point.....

    It is what it is and will be interpreted by both sides to mean something completely different, no one can stop that process.

    I once heard a guy say something along the lines of--the Bill of Rights isn't an al la carte menu.

    Carry on..........
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    I'm not Spartacus


    It'll come back.


    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

  24. #59
    This clusterf**k should never have been any amendment issue.... posting those signs in that area was dumbass at its finest.

    Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

  25. #60
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    This clusterf**k should never have been any amendment issue.... posting those signs in that area was dumbass at its finest.

    Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
    Agreed

    BUT--from a law enforcement prospective, at this rally, why was this zone rule not enforced?
    I'm not Spartacus


    It'll come back.


    Professional Mangler of Grammar

    Guns don't kill people--Static Ropes Do!!

    Who Is John Galt?

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