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Thread: BLM controversy in Southern Utah

  1. #21
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelsonccc View Post
    It's stupid. By the BLM's own admission they are spending 2 million dollars for this round-up of 900 cows, so at best at a $1000 a head, $900,000. Why wouldn't they just round up 300 head when, by their own press release, they would be happy with the judges previous judgement ruling of $300K? These are cows that are dying and being buried near the road with a govt backhoe.

    It's really about the proposed fracking leases in the area and the actual Bundy owned property (not BLM leases) that extends to the interstate. I'm not a conspiracy theory guy but there are some alarming coincidences regarding the gas exploration and his ranch.

    I'm a bit passionate about the Gold Butte areas as I've been dirt biking there since I was a kid and have steadily watched area after area get closed off and I think It's interesting as a state's rights vs govt rights situation and this isnt the first time, they tried to round up his cows a few years ago too. Now I agree the Bundy guy is a bit wacko and for sure it's escalated by his refusal to accept the BLM's rulings and get his cattle of the land. This has been going on for years and years and his view the BLM is trying to regulate him out of business.

    On the BLM side they have been trying to resolve this judicially for years and from what I understand two separate judges have issued orders. So the real issue here is whether the BLM has the right to take his land and then charge him for its use. Especially since his family has been there since the 1800's. He's willing to pay but wants the money to go to the state and not the feds.

    Anyways, I find the whole thing pretty interesting.
    Absolutely!!!

    Law Enforcement should ALWAYS turn a profit!

    Maybe they can plant some Meth on him, or something.

    Tom

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  3. #22
    We have family property since 1901 just above Oakley. It is surrounded on all four sides by the national forrest, an island of private if you will. It is beautiful and kept mostly as wilderness with the exception of the old logging access road from the 1800's. The Forest Service has tried to squeeze us out several times over the years - a judge in the 70's ruled hard in our favor and pretty much settled the access and such. We need the road to continue to be considered a "class D County Road" as that is the ruling by which the USF must maintain our access. The county has no dog in the fight and doesn't care whether the road is kept accessable or not.

    A few years ago the USF rolled rocks off the mountain side choking off access on the road up above our property - citing it is now a watershed. They sell grazing rights to the ranchers in Oakly for summer range, even including our property in the description of the rights! I didn't think they could have herd cattle in a watershed... guess I was wrong. When my Bro in Law raised the issue of grazing on our land he was told that we would need to fence the entire length of the road through the property (roughly 3/4 mile), as well as the two end borders (1/2 mile each) to keep the cattle out... our problem, our expense. Fortunately we know the rancher involved - BiL grew up with the wife of him - and he's cool about it, tries to get the cattle off ahead of the lease so that it won't dick with our hunts, etc...

    My BiL would love to pick a fight with the USF... I figure for our uses there isn't really an inconvience, except for the cattle pushing the elk out some years. I don't feel the need to spend the money on the attorneys and courts and upsetting the fragile peace. Actually the Rangers we run into occasionally on the property are pretty cool and have no knowledge of the history involved. I feel for the folks in NV as they appear to be getting hardlined... though there are 2 sides to the story I'm sure. I just hope watching the media coverage doesn't enflame the BiL to go after them....

    Claim to Fame - parts of the movie Buffalo Rider were filmed on the property... check our youtube for hilarity...

  4. #23
    I don't understand why Bundy and other Americans are invoking States' Rights - which ceased to exist almost exactly 149 years ago (9 years before the Bundy family started ranching in the disputed area) at Appomattox. The Bundys will lose, but hopefully more Americans will wake up...although if Vladimir Putin and Duck Dynasty showed up together, the Feds and their enablers would doubtless be on the run!!!

  5. #24
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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  6. #25
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  8. #26
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Will this be short term or long term?

    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/252303...-bundy-and-blm
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  9. #27
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Seems a heavily armed citizenry put down a heavily armed government, without a shot being fired.
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  10. #28
    Wow you've got to be REALLY stupid to throw a lady down in front of 10 recording cell phones.

  11. #29
    Kurt is all over it...

    Yeah, I'd bet big that Reid's stinky breath is all over this thing.
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  12. #30
    Wilderness Photographer cchoc's Avatar
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    So I wonder if the rancher's ancestors refused government help when they were stealing the land from the natives. Sounds to me like he's just another asshole tightwad but the feds were right to back off before they had to kill a few knuckleheads.
    Charlie...
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  13. #31
    Today the media is linking dirty harry and his son to the leasing of the land to the Chinese for a massive solar panel farm. Guess where the map shows the solar farm? Right dab in the middle of Bundy's property. Very interesting and not surprising at all. Harry's son has a very dirty reputation here in Clark county too. Daddy's boy for sure. And the BLM director is harry's old staff. Alarming.

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  16. #33
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Feds think they are the only ones with tactical teams.

    THIS--is why the second amendment matters, this is why gun owners will not go quietly into the night.
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  18. #34
    Adventurer at Large! BruteForce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    Will this be short term or long term?

    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/252303...-bundy-and-blm
    I think that once the crowds/militia depart, the FLEO's will be back. Too many egos to just let this go..
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  19. #35
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruteForce View Post
    I think that once the crowds/militia depart, the FLEO's will be back. Too many egos to just let this go..
    I agree.
    But if they do come back, their only intention can be to murder citizens
    and thats not likely to go over well.
    To attempt to control the citizenry, they must step up their game and thats were it will get interesting.
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  20. #36
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Also keep in mind the local law enforcement sided with the fed.
    Not good for neighborly relations, down the road.
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  21. #37
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Video about the blm
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  22. #38
    It has been claimed by many sources (Google "welfare ranching") that without subsidies to ranchers grazing on public lands, such grazing in the desert would be unprofitable. Even as it is, an extremely small percentage of beef and cattle products comes from cattle that are grazed on public lands.

    Taxpayer money has paid for, and does pay for, fences, gates, cattle-guards, and predator extermination, as well as disaster aid for things like drought conditions, etc. Even on a highway project in a rural area, which people might not always think about, a large amount of taxpayer money is spent on items for cattle grazed on public land (I'm not saying that I'm against all of this part though).

    Most cattle grazing now days is done on private lands in areas with adequate rainfall rather than the barren desert. In the past, cattle raising in the desert was still profitable without subsidies, but this mostly ended with better transportation methods such as railroad and trucking.

    So far, this year alone, the state of Nevada has asked for millions of Federal dollars for drought relief for ranchers. The Department of Agriculture declared this year that Nevada is a disaster zone.

    Here's a quote, not from the BLM, but a Agricultural Website article last month:

    USDA has designated nine Nevada counties as primary natural disaster areas because of drought.

    Included are the counties of Churchill, Lander, Mineral, Pershing, Clark, Lyon, Nye, Washoe and Humboldt.

    In accordance with the Consolidated Farm and Rural Development, the following counties were named as contiguous disaster areas: Douglas, Esmeralda, Lincoln, White Pine, Elko, Eureka, Storey and Carson City.

    Farmers and ranchers qualify for natural disaster assistance because of the USDA declaration. Those needing assistance should contact their local USDA Farm Service Agency office listed on the internet at www.fsa.usad./gov/NV.

    "I am pleased that USDA Secretary Vilsack approved a disaster designation of Nevada counties," says Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval, who was awaiting word from the state's drought response committee reviewing the declaration.

    "USDA has a variety of programs to help eligible Nevada producers recover from adversity caused by natural disaster," says Jim Barbee, Nevada Department of Agriculture director.

    "Every piece of the puzzle counts."

    Actions taken by Vilsack in 2012 to provide assistance to producers impacted by drought included:

    •Extended emergency grazing on Conservation Reserve Program land, freeing up a record 2.8 million acres and as much as $200 million in forage and feed for ranchers during a challenging time.

    http://farmprogress.com/story-nevada...areas-9-109732

    It seems that an easy way to satisfy both political ideological sides in theory would be to simply end the subsidies and bailouts, especially in desert areas. From an ideological standpoint, wouldn't that work for both conservatives and those who think grazing should be regulated?

    Our country needs food, and I can see bailouts if the Nation's food supply is threatened, but in modern times, subsidizing farming and ranching in the barren desert really doesn't make that much sense from an economic standpoint. Keep in mind that this comes from someone who has descended from a long line of farmers and ranchers, including from the hardy soles that settled the desert (my family were some of the earliest residents to settle Kanab and Delta [UT]).
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

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  24. #39
    Wilderness Photographer cchoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    I agree.
    But if they do come back, their only intention can be to murder citizens
    and thats not likely to go over well.
    To attempt to control the citizenry, they must step up their game and thats were it will get interesting.
    If he was behaving like a citizen this wouldn't be happening. FYI
    Charlie...
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  25. #40
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cchoc View Post
    If he was behaving like a citizen this wouldn't be happening. FYI
    FYI--standing up to a corrupt agency, egged on by a corrupt senator, who's intention is to remove you from land the they intend to use for other means and pad their own pocket, is not only a citizen's duty, it's damn Patriotic, IMO.

    Allowing any agency to throw a woman to the ground in the manner I posted above is criminal and I hope is prosecuted.
    But I'm glad to know you support such action to your wife/girlfriend.

    Scott-nice generalities, now go do a bit more research on THIS ranch and let me know who has been developing and maintaining the land.
    I will agree with you about far too many farm subsidies being paid out, most in an attempt to control
    commodity prices.

    Go here http://farm.ewg.org/index.php
    it is astounding the abuse of this system and I see a lot of it in my area.
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