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Thread: CRITR rappel device demo

  1. #21
    Hey Oldno7!
    have always admired the truth of your byline:
    "guns don't kill people, static ropes do" !!!
    Ha! (belongs on a product warning somewhere....)
    Yes, big people ARE the target group for the CRITR- having been kind of left out by the current crop.
    Like you, we like to know where the weakest link(s) are-
    best way to make stuff stronger.
    Will start breaking soon.

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  3. #22
    Seems that nice friction could be created by snaking the rope thru the hooks?

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

  4. #23
    Exactly!
    Will post first draft of instructions for CRITR , soon.
    Thanks

  5. #24
    Let's pass on instructions and get right to selling them:)

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

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  7. #25
    We are of like mind! Writing instructions is even worse (way slower) than reading them.
    Desi and I went thru Mud Springs canyon Sunday with a buddy- his first time on the CRITR.
    Because it was not anodized, made him promise in the morning to give it back at the end of the day.
    He never gave it back- a good sign we think

  8. #26
    When you start selling them. Make sure you have yourself well protected with a LLC.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

  9. #27
    I'm surprised that you went ahead and made so many before you had conducted any testing. Seems a bit hasty to me. I don't see any glaring flaws with your device but I realized early on after running a test batch of my product that R&D is a time consuming and complicated process made even more so by potential legal pitfalls and the complicated logistics of a small budget. Hence the indefinite shelving of my project. If I do revisit the concept, it will be for my personal consumption and will only stand a chance at production after seasons of use and testing by myself.

    Another reason for my current dismissal is the semblance that the updated version of my device bears to the CRITR. As I was at the drawing board for the revision of my device, the advent of the CRITR gave me more reason to abandon my project for the time being. If someone else wants to undertake a project and assume the liability of such a similar device, they can carry that torch as far as I'm concerned.

    Well done and best of luck. I may even buy one.

  10. #28
    Name:  critr break 3-12-13.jpg
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    Hi Bootboy- thanks for your post!
    The Testing we are doing now is of the 'due diligence' type (batch testing the run for conformance).
    We have been breaking samples (and canyoneering with) the specific CRITR prototypes for over five months now (and another year and a half before that with other rappel device designs).
    Man, are you right about the complicated R&D process/ legal pitfalls/ budget!!! Luke at Buugnome is up against the same hurdles.
    Advice to all fellow 'garage' inventors: don't quit your day job!
    There are a couple of advantages we have had since our 'day job' company already manufactures safety equipment. So we have had access to a small machine shop, load testing equipment, and a 25' scissor-lift (allows dozens of short test-rappels with different levels of weight, rope diameters, etc).
    Plus a full time machinist / CAD genius that tells us when our ideas are getting too stupid.
    We have been following your posts with interest and admiring your creations. No doubt we will be buying equipment that you are manufacturing in the months/years to come.
    We will be posting complete test results for CRITR soon but here is a basic tensile test of the frame only.
    BEST! Todd and Desi

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  12. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by harness man View Post
    We will be posting complete test results for CRITR soon but here is a basic tensile test of the frame only.
    BEST! Todd and Desi
    Todd, was this tested in the "manner of function," i.e. with rope properly rigged in the device and tied off to prevent slippage?

  13. #30
    Nah....It is a 'stupid' test just to see how much the frame can withstand. We had to rig it with big honking steel shackles: thru the biner hole at one end and the head opening on the other
    Rigged 'properly' with a rope and carabiner as you would for rappelling either the rope or the 'biner will break long before the CRITR.
    It was interesting to see it pop though!
    Correct and sensible UIAA format testing to come...

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  15. #31
    Just completed full UIAA test for "Manual braking device" for the CRITR.
    Basically, setting up the CRITR as you would rappel, with 8mm Canyon Pro and loading the CRITR to 7 kN (we kept force over 1,600 lbs.) for I minute.
    This test was repeated for ALL friction settings for the CRITR with single and double rope- 18 separate pull tests all together.
    ALL PASS.
    Full report next week.
    Name:  CRITR UIAA  setting 0A+.jpg
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Size:  68.3 KB

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  17. #32
    After passing the UIAA test decided to pull the abused little CRITR to failure...

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  19. #33
    So, the reading on the digital screen, is that the simulated weight applied to the device?
    Looks like the rope sheath failed just prior to the CRITR..
    would be cool to see in slow motion.


  20. #34
    Yes, CRITR busted at 3,680 lbs of force.
    It is good to know that one can hang a couple of compact cars (1 1/2 SUVs) off the CRITR before it crumples.
    In this test set up the braking side of the rope puts a multiplier force around the arm and leg; we will have to try a test with the rope just locked off (hands free) on the CRITR....
    now gotta figure out slow mo.....

  21. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by harness man View Post
    Yes, CRITR busted at 3,680 lbs of force.
    It is good to know that one can hang a couple of compact cars (1 1/2 SUVs) off the CRITR before it crumples.
    In this test set up the braking side of the rope puts a multiplier force around the arm and leg; we will have to try a test with the rope just locked off (hands free) on the CRITR....
    now gotta figure out slow mo.....
    I wonder also what the actual breaking force was. Like you said its multiplied by the raps minus the friction of the rope on the aluminum.

  22. #36
    Hey Bootboy-
    See you have some gear for sale- nice! We are interested in a sand trap- any pictures?
    Because of the friction of the rope wrapped around the CRITR- hard to know the isolated force on the arm/leg/torso....
    We used the same set up for this break test because it is what UIAA decided was the best way to evaluate rappel devices (at 7 kN for 1 minute)
    It is hard to know WHAT is the most meaningful way to bust a rap device because no one can hang on to a rope end with more than a few hundred lbs. of pressure, unless they have a fireman's belay. So the UIAA test assumes a SUPER fireman's belay and that the combined pull from the rappeller and the belay should be able to handle 7kN. All good. Someone weighing 160 lbs free-falling ten feet or more onto a completely static line (and anchor) could theoretically develop that kind of shock-load, but for just milliseconds, not 60 seconds.
    So I think the test is a pretty good hurdle to have to step over- but if you think of a more revealing test - let us know!

  23. #37
    CRITR duo available soon. Laser etch underway...
    Name:  CRITR duo.jpg
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Size:  61.8 KB

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  25. #38
    Canyon Wrangler canyoncaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harness man View Post
    The CRITR does not twist the rope
    This looks like a cool device, but I'm not buying that it doesn't twist the rope. Any device that runs the rope through a figure eight hole or one that involves hooking horns will twist the rope, at least to some degree.

  26. #39
    Hi Canyoncaver
    You are right! And I should be more careful with blanket assertions! (my bad)
    With the CRITR the rope twist is a matter of degree: our (new) official position is that the CRITR "minimizes rope twist" and compared to the ATS and the Pirana the difference is HUGE when rappelling single line (which is what the CRITR is built for- variable control of heavy loads on skinny single line rappels). When on double rope it DOES tend to twist more like a Pirana.
    This minimized twist with the CRITR appears to be the result of a couple of things:
    When the (single line) rope is under tension it is mostly aligned in the same plane
    With the CRITR the (single line) rope does NOT 'spiral' (twist) around any of the structure.
    Many of you will be familiar with the classic 'spiral' groove that wears around the side of the ATS and to a lessor degree, the Pirana.
    In our two-plus years researching Rap devices we found that ANY device that twists the rope around a bar 'candy cane' style also twists the heck out of the rope.
    Rope twist on the CRITR will also vary depending on the rappellor (the position of the brake hand relative to the CRITR has some effect), and the type and condition of the rope.
    The results of our testing with experienced rappellors, single line, on a variety of ropes and friction settings on a 100' mostly free rappel is that the CRITR will spin the rope from zero to two full rotations over the full rappel.
    What everyone using the CRITR so far has found is that on single line rappels the CRITR twists the rope much less than the ATS and a bit less than the Pirana.
    Thank you for raising the point!

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  28. #40
    Opps --sentence is unclear---
    results of CRITR twist test: some ropes/settings/ people got zero twist; worst was two full twists, most in between with single rope.

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