First Person Slot Canyon Rescue Account

[rockgremlin]

That's so damn funny I just blew coffee out me nose all over my keyboard.

If Canyoneering is an extreme sport you are doing it wrong.....

Yup, you're right. Heaps, Imlay, Chambers, Sandthrax, Alcatraz, etc, etc.....not extreme at all. Anyone with a rope and a weekend can do it.


Clearly there are varying degrees of difficulty depending on which canyon you choose, but in general it would fall into the category of extreme. Maybe not quite as extreme as NASCAR, or dragging clown cars on the salt flats, but in general canyoneering isn't for everyone.

YMMV

[rockgremlin]

....and driving your car in rush hour in Utah IS an extreme sport. Utah drivers are the worst.

[TommyBoy]

I think it depends on how you define an extreme sport. Usually when I think of extreme sports I think of things like Base Jumping, where even if you're trained and do everything you can to minimize the risk involved it is still very dangerous. With canyoneering if you get the training and build your skills slowly over time watch the weather, etc., then once you do go into canyons like Heaps, Imlay, etc. its actually quite safe, even if it isn't easy.

[ratagonia]

If Canyoneering is an extreme sport you are doing it wrong.....

While the dangers should be respected and a positive skill set needs to be acquired I see it no differently then driving your car.... I mean who really takes to the highway during rush hour their first day out, which is kinda what tossing newb's into Chambers is like.


if you are going to maintain that stance I suggest driving your car in rush hour is also an extreme sport. an ext

EXACTLY!

[ratagonia]

Yup, you're right. Heaps, Imlay, Chambers, Sandthrax, Alcatraz, etc, etc.....not extreme at all. Anyone with a rope and a weekend can do it.

Hmmmm.

Skiing in the ski area is not an extreme sport. But one does not take a first-timer to the top of High Rustler on their first day. And then say "well, sometimes stuff just happens".

Yeah, sometimes stuff does happen. But in this case, that is not what happened.

Tom

[rockgremlin]

EXACTLY!

Tom and Shane agreeing with one another....wow. I'm marking my calendar. Not sure it'll ever happen again.

I'm not sure why Shane was disagreeing with me....I thought ideas were badges of friendship or enmity. I thought he would agree with me in order to express friendliness...regardless of the content of my post.

[rockgremlin]

I think it depends on how you define an extreme sport. Usually when I think of extreme sports I think of things like Base Jumping, where even if you're trained and do everything you can to minimize the risk involved it is still very dangerous. With canyoneering if you get the training and build your skills slowly over time watch the weather, etc., then once you do go into canyons like Heaps, Imlay, etc. its actually quite safe, even if it isn't easy.

Agree. The way I define extreme is by how exerting it is both mentally and physically, regardless of how "dangerous" it is.

[Iceaxe]

Tom and Shane agreeing with one another....wow. I'm marking my calendar. Not sure it'll ever happen again.

I believe Tom and I generally agree on most canyoneering issues, it's just when we disagree folks seem to take notice and choose sides.



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Sombeech]

One time I dislocated my knee when I sat down on the sofa wrong.

Noob.

[ratagonia]

I believe Tom and I generally agree on most canyoneering issues, it's just when we disagree folks seem to take notice and choose sides.

When Shane posts something I agree with, there is rarely a reason for me to post too. But this???




I agree with the other definition of ExTrEmE SpOrT - it's gotta have a death or major injury element to it.

Sport Climbing may look like an Extreme Sport to people who don't climb, but it's not. You do it right, it is entirely safe. Of course, you do it wrong, or make stupid mistakes and it can kill you, but the same can be said for driving on the freeway.

Free Soloing on the other hand... Alex Honnold so far is 100%. Let's hope he maintains the 100% level for quite a few years. He is super-solid, pretty close to zero risk. There are quite a few free-soloers who were super-solid, pretty close to zero risk when free-soloing... and I know two at that level who died soloing. You only gotta make one mistake...

Tom

[reverse_dyno]

Wikipedia says Rock Climbing and Caving are extreme sports, Canyoneering must also be. Of course Wiki also lists Paint Ball as an extreme sport .

[Scott P]

Wikipedia says Rock Climbing and Caving are extreme sports, Canyoneering must also be. Of course Wiki also lists Paint Ball as an extreme sport .

Anyway, why does it matter if it is an extreme sport or not? It's a silly debate. Either way, if you screw up, you can be seriously injured or die. That can be said about a lot of activities, but canyoneering certainly does have an element of danger that seems to be often downplayed, especially if you are inexperienced, have little experience, or are reckless.

The ratio of the number of canyoneers there are vs. the amount of rescues and injuries indicates that people aren't taking the dangers seriously enough (and I admit that I was the same way early on). It seems to me that no other popular sport I can think of has a higher rescue and injury rate than canyoneering does. In southern Utah, for example, technical climbers outnumber technical canyoneers by a long shot, but I hear about much more injuries and rescues from canyoneers vs. climbers.

[TommyBoy]

LIke it was said in the gorging movie, in climbing if you cant do the route you just go back down. In canyoneering once you pull your rope after the first drop you have to complete the canyon whether you have the skill or not so its way easier to get in over your head.

[Bo_Beck]

In southern Utah, for example, technical climbers outnumber technical canyoneers by a long shot, but I hear about much more injuries and rescues from canyoneers vs. climbers.

Well Scott.....here's another disagreement. I have lived here in SW Utah for 24 years now, and also have worked in the "Extreme Sport?" industry here for the same amount of time, and at one time I'd have agreed with you. Canyoneering as accessible as it is has outgrown sport climbing, trad climbing and bouldering, and there are FAR more folks delving into Canyoneering for the first time than there are folks taking up climbing for the first time! Period!

[Iceaxe]

but I hear about much more injuries and rescues from canyoneers vs. climbers.

I believe a large part of this is because canyoneering rescues are a lot more involved. If your friend breaks his ankle sport climbing you carry him to the car and drive to the hospital, but it's not as simple when the rescue is deep inside a slot canyon.

No one cares to read a story about driving to the hospital, but involve a helicopter and suddenly the story is a lot more news worthy.

[Scott P]

Canyoneering as accessible as it is has outgrown sport climbing, trad climbing and bouldering, and there are FAR more folks delving into Canyoneering for the first time than there are folks taking up climbing for the first time! Period!

Taking it on for the first time, for sure. Anyway, you would know more than me since you are involved with SAR. It would be hard to be sure, but in your opinion, how does the accident rate compare with climbing vs. canyoneering?

I believe a large part of this is because canyoneering rescues are a lot more involved.

Also, I'd have to agree with Turville's assessment in the Gorging documentary mentioned by Tommyboy. It's easy to get in trouble in canyoneering because once you pull your rope on the first drop you are committed. When climbing, you can usually descend back down if you get to an obstacle beyond your skill level.

It seems a lot of people underestimate canyoneering because they think it is just hiking with some rappels thrown in. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. Rappelling is very easy until something goes wrong.

[walkthetaco]

How about RISK.
Risk is defined as probability of an event to occur times the consequences of the event.
Risk management.
We will be judged by a jury of our peers to determine if we are liable.
It's a "state of mind".

[maarten.1975]

First of all I wish you all the best in recovering from the accident!
Thanks for letting us in on the whole experience. I always experience stories like yours as a good warning, hopefully making me sharp enough to prepare properly for all my upcoming canyons. Especially when I read stories like this, which are written on this 'personal' and detailed level it works this way. If it is just a little article on some news-website, it hardly makes an impression.


And concerning the 'extreme sport' thing. It is all a matter of which definition we use. (In many discussions the difference of opinion is caused by the different definition people use for the thing they are arguing about.) In canyoneering I think it is the unexpected element that may cause the trouble. Prepare properly, always expect the worst to happen, hopefully it will be better!


Then I saw there is extreme ironing named @ Wikipedia as being an extreme sport.....
Who the h*ll invented that?
I might try that one day. Grab the ironing stuff from my hotel room and drag it with me into let's say Behunin hehehe....

[Scott P]

I might try that one day. Grab the ironing stuff from my hotel room and drag it with me into let's say Behunin hehehe....

Sounds kind of pansy. You should at least go for Heaps!

[deagol]

Extreme Sport seems to be marketing more than reality... sandboarding??? Mountain biking can be mellow depending on how you do it. Too many Mountain Dew commercials.