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Thread: LDS Church Instructs Leaders on Same-Sex Marriage

  1. #21
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahansen60 View Post
    I'll tell you what I believe people are born with. All of us are born with trials in life, we are born with weaknesses and tendencies. These weaknesses and tendencies are there to test us and to humble us. Some of us have a weakness/tendency towards homosexual activity, some of us have a weakness for alcoholism, for some it's anger/abuse, for some it's gambling, for some it's sex/pornography. The list goes on and on.

    If we make the choice to give in to those weaknesses or tendencies, that is when it becomes a sin. Having an attraction or thoughts alone is not sin, it is acting on those thoughts where one crosses the boundary.
    Says who?

    (if this is a discussion for LDS Members of LDS instruction, then I am over-stepping the boundaries. However, when LDS instruction becomes state (now Federal) law, IT oversteps the boundary into secular governmental function. "We the People" is an inclusive "WE", not a "We the ruling majority of the People"...)

    (and, my apologies for picking on you, ahansen60. Nothing personal.

    Your moral challenge, ahansen60, seems to be hubris - the belief that your tiny, minority (though locally majority), narrow, interpretation of God's will is correct in that it applies to ALL people, regardless of religious faith or lack thereof, and is CORRECT... and additionally should be incorporated into local, state and federal law.

    Sidebar: Islam vs. Christainity: there is an important difference between what a blasphemer is in Islam and in (post 1600) Christianity. In modern Christianity, to blaspheme, one has to be a believer. If I, as an atheist, say something bad about God, it is perhaps offensive to believers, but it is not blasphemy, an insult to God. Or more accurately, it is a problem between God and me, not between you and me. In modern Islam, ANY person who says anything bad about Allah or His Prophet (or depicts either in art) is guilty of blasphemy and is to be put to death. Close Sidebar

    According to Deuteronomy, there are a lot of things that are "an abomination", including, maybe, homosexual union. Hard to say really, since Yahweh, being Yahweh, doesn't say things very clearly, but kinda implies this or that. Also included on the "abomination list" are such things as eating shellfish, wearing blends of fibers, and collecting honey from nests in animal skulls. These "abominations" don't seem to get much press these days... Come to think of it, the translation of the Hebrew word to "Abomination" is rather a stretch - seems "Against Ritual" is a more accurate translation, basically meaning that if you do any of these things, then you are not a very good (Hasidic) Jew.

    I suspect, ahansen60, that YOU are not a very good Orthodox Hasidic Jew. Do you keep the Sabbath, performing no work (including turning on light switches, cooking food, etc.) from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset? Then YOU are an abominator!!!

    See how it works, when you really dig into it? Sure is a tough row to hoe, establishing strict moral guidelines for all people on earth!

    The good news about Deuteronomy is that it really only applies to strict Orthodox Hasidic Jews, and not to the rest of us. And it is a MORAL challenge for those who CHOSE to take it up, who exercise Free Agency in choosing that challenge, rather than something that needs to be encoded into state or federal law as... wait, what's that you say? Because YOUR faith has misinterpreted the scripture, these prohibitions (including presumeably not eating shellfish, nor wearing blended fibers and using honey taken from skulls????) should be enshrined into our state and federal laws???? WTF????

    To get back to it: I am perfectly fine with your interpretation for YOU that the LDS Church teaches that succumbing to homosexual desires is sinful. I agree that you are the EXPERT of what doctrine applies to you. However, even applying your interpretation of LDS doctrine to other Members is fraught with hubris; let alone applying that doctrine to non-Members who happen to live in Utah; or applying it to gay LDS members who may or may not have exercised their free agency to incorporate this aspect of official church doctrine into their own relationship with God.

    Your (and the Church's) compulsion to dictate and control the Free Agency of other persons using the blunt instrument of the State and Federal government is an insult to the will of God - an act of blasphemy, perhaps not against your version of God, but certainly against our shared vision - the land of the free, the home of the brave.

    Tom

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  4. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ahansen60 View Post
    I'll tell you what I believe people are born with.
    ...a weakness/tendency towards homosexual activity, some of us have a weakness for alcoholism, for some it's anger/abuse, for some it's gambling, for some it's sex/pornography...
    And for some it's patronizing bullshit, apparently.

  5. #23
    Not trying to tell anyone how to live. I felt that some people had misunderstood the LDS Church's beliefs and stance on the issue. Simply trying to clear up any confusion or misinterpretation. If you don't like hearing it from me, go to the church's website. It's all on there too.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

  6. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post

    (if this is a discussion for LDS Members of LDS instruction, then I am over-stepping the boundaries. However, when LDS instruction becomes state (now Federal) law, IT oversteps the boundary into secular governmental function. "We the People" is an inclusive "WE", not a "We the ruling majority of the People"...)

    Your moral challenge, ahansen60, seems to be hubris - the belief that your tiny, minority (though locally majority), narrow, interpretation of God's will is correct in that it applies to ALL people, regardless of religious faith or lack thereof, and is CORRECT... and additionally should be incorporated into local, state and federal law.
    The difference here is that the people of this state CHOSE to impose its will on the (local) minority by restricting marriage to hetetosexual couples. So yes, it is "We the ruling majority of the People." When some activist judge prances in here purporting to speak for the federal government and overturns the will of the people of the state in a matter specifically reserved for the states to decide, then the right of the people to make its own decisions is being severely eroded and our republic is further weakened. Even SCOTUS (for the time being) has agreed on this point in principle.

    Notice how no one squealed when the other umpteen states decided to legalize gay marriage? As long as it goes along with the current federal administration's agenda, hey, no harm no foul.

    Just wait a few years, Tom. Even the majority of the people of Utah will eventually approve gay marriage and marijuana.
    Just where is it I could find bear, beaver, and other critters worth cash money when skint?

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