Is the Clove Hitch Safe?

[oldno7]

Hitches? We don't need no stinking hitches. Just rap double strand.

Shane??

Shane, is that you?

[ratagonia]

This WAS a clove hitch I set, after a couple rappellers. Which is why I now use the Triple Clove. Yes, I am not as cautious as Mr. 7.

Tom

[craigskiles]

Yikes! Ratagonia's picture has convinced me that the clove hitch is good in theory only.

The triple clove just might be the ticket.

It is going to be funny when I show up in Utah next spring and display to my partners what I have learned from Bogley. They probably won't find my "oldno7" hitch to be practical.

[oldno7]

This WAS a clove hitch I set, after a couple rappellers. Which is why I now use the Triple Clove. Yes, I am not as cautious as Mr. 7.

Tom

This looks like a great advertisement for EACH person checking the anchor and rigging, prior to their rappelling.(YOU are responsible for your OWN safety)

I would presume the last person who rapped, did not check the block?

Maybe they didn't feel the need because Moses set it?

Maybe they didn't notice it was "girth" hitched and not clove hitched?

[oldno7]

A "clove" hitch(what is commonly used for blocking a rope with a carabiner), has rope that comes from opposing directions.(see picture)

[oldno7]

A "girth" hitch(which is NOT used to block a rope with a carabiner) is pictured here.

Both rope end come from the same direction.

[canyoncaver]

This looks like a great advertisement for EACH person checking the anchor and rigging, prior to their rappelling.(YOU are responsible for your OWN safety)

I would presume the last person who rapped, did not check the block?

Maybe they didn't feel the need because Moses set it?

Maybe they didn't notice it was "girth" hitched and not clove hitched?

Maybe they were just too distracted by the naked man in the drop zone with no helmet on.

[oldno7]

Notice how on a "girth" hitch, the rope over the 2 strands is on one side of the carabiner.

On a "clove" hitch, the rope crosses diagonally over the carabiner.

Now study Tom's picture, if the hitch is placed in the intended spot(backbone of carabiner) The rope over the top is on one side--not crossed over the carabiner.

[mzamp]

This WAS a clove hitch I set, after a couple rappellers. Which is why I now use the Triple Clove. Yes, I am not as cautious as Mr. 7.

Tom

So what you're saying is to always check knots that you tie? - err umm I mean hitches.

[oldno7]

I'm going to redact my comment on Tom's being a girth hitch.

The picture is difficult to see but when I loaded it into LR, I couldn't conclusively say, one way or the other.

My apologies to Tom, if I was wrong.

I still can't completely verify but I was wrong to make a judgement when not 100% certain.

[hank moon]

I'm going to redact my comment on Tom's being a girth hitch.

The picture is difficult to see but when I loaded it into LR, I couldn't conclusively say, one way or the other.

here's an enhanced version that may help. like you, i was pretty certain at first view that it wasn't a clove hitch, but changed my mind after a closer look. Unfortunately, the pic is really bad, and there's not a better version available (until now, that is). :)


Attachment 70363

[Bootboy]

So stop using a clove. I'm a big fan of the constrictor for blocks. It won't put a twist in the rope and it won't open up. Which are two of the biggest problems with stiff canyoneering ropes and the clove hitch. It's really easy to open as well if you just slide it down to the corner.

[ratagonia]

I'm going to redact my comment on Tom's being a girth hitch.

The picture is difficult to see but when I loaded it into LR, I couldn't conclusively say, one way or the other.

My apologies to Tom, if I was wrong.

I still can't completely verify but I was wrong to make a judgement when not 100% certain.

Wow, Kurt. I did not know you were so powerful! A limited, conditional apology from Mr. 7 to me, and the universe shifted so much that Bogley was down for FOUR Days!

---------

But, thank you.

Scared the crap out of me when I saw that picture. Have used a triple ever since.

Very certain I tied a clove to start. I tightened it up, and if it was not right, it would tighten up very differently.

I call that knot a "cow hitch", reserving the name "girth hitch" for the same knot performed with another sling or other "soft" material.

Tom

[rick t]

I too have seen what Toms photo shows, in action in a canyon. And worse. I once tied a correct clove hitch on the spline, and because the 9m rope had been wet on its last use, and was extremely stiff, I carefully set it, tight against the rap ring, so it couldn't come undone. The first rappeller, my sister, stepped over the edge with one foot, and then pulled herself back up on the deck for a one second comment- to get the camera out, and dropped back onto rappel. In that second of releasing the tension on the rope, the clove hitch virtually exploded, like a coiled sping, and in a heartbeat was no more than three raps around the spline, which rapidly started dropping the rappeller. Having left 8 ft or so of tail, I was able to grab the rope and stop it, after only a foot or so had run through it, but it scared me badly, it was a close call. The group all talked about it, and each persons responsibility in ths arrangement, but about this time I first became aware of the 8 block, which cannot come undone by itself, despite repeatedly being weighted and unweighted, and of course is a contingency block which can be halfway undone to allow lowering of the rappeller using the 8 when the need arises- as if she gets her hair caught up in the descender halfway down the pine creek exit rap, leaving her locked up,swinging in the air, 50 ft off the ground. Between the fact that it cannot come undone spontaneously, and with the added safety of it being a contingency block, an 8 is now the only block I use or teach.

[deagol]

So stop using a clove. I'm a big fan of the constrictor for blocks. It won't put a twist in the rope and it won't open up. Which are two of the biggest problems with stiff canyoneering ropes and the clove hitch. It's really easy to open as well if you just slide it down to the corner.

I'm thinking I may like this one a bit better that a triple clove, need to practice .....

[craigskiles]

Here are two photos of a modification to the the clove hitch that tightens nicely even with a stiff rope but is much easier to release than the constrictor hitch.

I just accidentally "discovered" this hitch while messing around with the clove hitch. Does anyone know what this hitch is called? It is really just the same as a clove hitch but with two riding turns instead of just one.

[deagol]

It's easily releasable with any rope. But you have to tie it right. Clip the cross over so you are clipping three strands instead of just two. Once tightened it can easily be loosened if you work the knot to the corner of the biner.

do you have a picture of this ?

Thanks...

[Canyonater]

Here are two photos of a modification to the the clove hitch that tightens nicely even with a stiff rope but is much easier to release than the constrictor hitch.

I just accidentally "discovered" this hitch while messing around with the clove hitch. Does anyone know what this hitch is called? It is really just the same as a clove hitch but with two riding turns instead of just one.

That one is complicated to tie on a bight....

[ratagonia]

Please do not overlook that one great benefit of the clove hitch on a biner is that it is EASY to tie and EASY to inspect. The Triple Clove also carries these attributes.

As an expert on making simple things complicated, I can tell you that there are consequences to doing so.

Tom

[hank moon]

Please do not overlook that one great benefit of the clove hitch on a biner is that it is EASY to tie and EASY to inspect.

What'r ya? some kinda SOCIALIST? :)