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10-16-2013, 11:39 AM #21
Dangerous Webbing in Arizona Canyons
●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
"He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
"There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
"...the first law of gear-dynamics: gear is like a gas - it will expand to fit the available space." -Wortman, Outside magazine.
"SEND IT, BRO!!"
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10-16-2013 11:39 AM # ADS
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10-16-2013, 11:53 AM #22
And what I meant to add b4 I stupidly hit reply button was : a BIG part of the problem solving is all of the technical aspects - anchor making, ghosting, downclimb vs partner assist vs rappel/anchoring, etc. Some people love this stuff, others obviously do not. So no you do not just trust everything. In fact you shouldn't, that is a good way to get hurt. Any training emphasizes not to trust but to check. To borrow the old Reagan line: "trust but verify". I know I know -
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10-16-2013, 12:56 PM #23
What is wrong with my Death Thread? It is useful, or so I've been told. It has 5000 hits... so, people are reading it.
*braces self for another half-tarded reply*
THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
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10-16-2013, 01:17 PM #24
Also, jman, posting random crap diminishes the quality of the forum. It's FAKE content. It simply dilutes the quality of conversation around here. You aren't Socrates, you're not stimulating anyone's thought processes with your patronizing fabricated questions.
Authentic content generates traffic. Traffic is what defines quality content. I shouldn't have to point this out to a moderator...THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
TRIP REPORTS: TIGER | BOBCAT | OCELOT | LYNX | SABERTOOTH | CHEETAH | PORCUPINE | LEOPARD
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10-16-2013, 01:51 PM #25
Here's the problem with your attitude Bob....
Let's rehash, shall we?
Way back in 01-29-2013:
Originally Posted by levifackrell
Originally Posted by Slot Machine
Originally Posted by Slot Machine
Originally Posted by Canyon Collective
Originally Posted by Ratagonia●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
"He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
"There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
"...the first law of gear-dynamics: gear is like a gas - it will expand to fit the available space." -Wortman, Outside magazine.
"SEND IT, BRO!!"
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 LikesMrAdam liked this post
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10-16-2013, 04:22 PM #26Traffic is what defines quality content.
Wayyyy more people click on threads that are just bullshit interpersonal drama than do click on trip reports and beta questions and things like that. People love crap, thats why Miley Cyrus twerking and zombies and Drake and Huffpost and Fox News are so popular right now.
I'd say in general, online, there is an inverse relationship between number of clicks and relevant, important content.
Random questions does not a quality forum make.
I also think that "Is cleaning up a canyon a worthy or useless endeavor?" is an interesting thing to think about and a worthwhile question.
This brings up a ethics question.
I think it's a slippery slope, however, to plan one's canyon activities around the incompetence of other groups.
My idealistic and hypocritical answer is that every time one feels like pulling some webbing out of a canyon but is concerned about another groups safety/competence, one could leave the webbing in place and instead go online and post some retrievable anchor tech and encourage others to practice clean-descents and good canyon ethics(in a tactful manner).
The idea is to solve the problem with education rather than pulling the webbing I guess.
Edit: Can I say "bullshit" without it getting censored, but not "shit"?
Double edit: I can say both! Way to go Bogley! I thought we couldn't swear here? Has there been a change in the rules?
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10-16-2013, 04:43 PM #27
*YAWNS AT JMAN*
You're so sad when you try to craft arguments. It's like watching Stephen Hawking try to pole vault.
Yeeeeeeah, I fixed that whole thing with Levi. Publicly and privately. He is serving a Mormon mission right now, not scared away. No points for you. Nice try. I'd be happy to take him canyoneering when he gets back. Tom can take care of himself. He is still here. Besides, he knows we always have a beer in the cooler for him.
Who else have I harassed away, in your fanciful land of make-believe?
You didn't answer my question about the Death Thread. What is wrong with it again?
And why do you craft fake content? You feel like Bogley needs it?THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
TRIP REPORTS: TIGER | BOBCAT | OCELOT | LYNX | SABERTOOTH | CHEETAH | PORCUPINE | LEOPARD
DON'T BE A STRANGER, LEAVE A COMMENT AND/OR SUBSCRIBE.
WWW.AMAZINGSLOTS.BLOGSPOT.COM
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10-16-2013, 05:08 PM #28
I suppose 'quality' is subjective. So you are right. The words 'relevant' and 'important' are also subjective. I disagree with the inverse relationship part of your argument. If you click on the most hit threads on Bogley, I think you will find a high percentage of them to be high quality stuff.
I use 'quality' in this context: quality posts are the gasoline that fuels Bogley, aka the traffic generating posts. Those posts translate into users, then users make the site grow. Like Fox News, I get how content works. Some facts, some drama, some news and some clever presentation. @Iceaxe REALLY gets how it works. His content is consistently high octane stuff. Whether you like his opinions or not, he adds GREATLY to the website.
I'm bagging on jman's content today because it is water, not gasoline. It's bad for the site. At least when he posts his buddies videos, that is half-interesting and adds to the forum. I'm challenging him to post honest questions and craft better content.THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
TRIP REPORTS: TIGER | BOBCAT | OCELOT | LYNX | SABERTOOTH | CHEETAH | PORCUPINE | LEOPARD
DON'T BE A STRANGER, LEAVE A COMMENT AND/OR SUBSCRIBE.
WWW.AMAZINGSLOTS.BLOGSPOT.COM
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 LikesSRG liked this post
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10-16-2013, 05:26 PM #29
A flailing attempt to unjack this thread...
@azhiker00, I would be very surprised if anyone would actually do this felonious and potentially murderous act. What would be the motive? Does your resource have pictures that they might be willing to share?THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 LikesAbsolute Gravity liked this post
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10-16-2013, 05:39 PM #30
Im gonna toss my hat in here and say Ive left Bogley for about a month and am not planning on coming back, and its because of you, Bob.
I like how you started in as a noob who didnt know anything, bitched and caused problems until people were forced to accept you, and now a scant year later you act like you practically invented canyoneering, and this forum. You went from calling out people for elitism to basically acting just like them. You are arrogant, overly sure of your own importance, and generally are a douchebag to the people that you were on par with just eighteen months ago. You try to act like a big dog like some of the other people on here, the only problem is you dont have a twenty year resume of canyons like they do. You have been canyoneering for what....two years? Yet you act like you know ANY and EVERY thing there is to know about it.
You need a slice of humble pie, Bob. Im not the one to do it. But someone needs to give you one.
But basically I've decided its easier (and more enjoyable) to just keep doing it and not bothering with the forum, because while there are a LOT of amazing, world class people on here, its not worth coming to anymore and having to wade through the knee deep bullshit that you bring to EVERY discussion. Whether its you talking down to someone or telling someone they are stupid and you are the one who "knows how it is" (because youve been there ONE time and thats how it was when you were there.....the ONE time).
Alright, im back on my exile. A friend of mine who lurks but never registered, and knows the forum, linked me over to this page and I had to speak. Just wanted to illustrate the crowd that doesnt care for your attitude is larger than you think.
Acting like a badass does not a good forum participant make.
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likesjman liked this post
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10-16-2013, 06:06 PM #31THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
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10-16-2013, 06:10 PM #32
bad for the site? please. Your actions speak for themselves plenty.
When did you join Bogley? 2011, 2012? Us old dogs have been here since 2006 (and much longer for a few).
And what's with this "half-content" and "make believe"? All of the quotations are from you. I'd be happy to provide the links with your quotes...
People don't have to provide content every single post they make. That is a ridiculous claim to make. Moving on.
I get it though, you have been around for what 2 years, and think you are part of the big leagues now. I've been canyoneering since late 2001 (subway was the initiatory canyon) and I've done numerous canyons in Utah. I haven't tried Ouray or Death Valley yet, but that's on the list. But, my point is, I still consider myself a noob essentially. This activity/sport has a a lot of dynamics to it. Better gear, better ropes, better techniques, better education are consistently improving the activity/sport. What it needs less of is people who don't treat others in a respectful manner. Sure, disagree all you want. Call people names. Call people's attempt at sharing THEIR WORLD, "half-content", and I guarantee that they won't be coming back.
People have thicker skin then others. They tend to stick around. Iceaxe, RockGremlin, Stefan, Accadacca, Sombeech, and a few others. The others moved on. Why stay on a "friendly" and "respectful" forum when some members consistently pound there chests, and constantly penis-measure yourself to others. No one cares about "who's the best" or "the a-team" etc. Most people here would agree me on this, and just want to share there experience in a canyon (good or bad), ask questions, get advice, share photos, etc. without being publicly humiliated, attacked, harrased by other members. Most get into the activity/sport and love it since day 1. That's why so many people check the Bogley - Canyoneering section on a VERY daily basis. Even folks who posted about there first Keyhole trip (which we have seen for the thousandth time) want to feel appreciated or have some acknowledgment from the members on a successful TR.
Sure, feel free to post "content" all you want and we will continue to read and watch it. But most want a community where they feel welcomed and can provide content (even if it's not up to your high standards of quality). With you and your attitude - no one gets that. Sure, we might get a few laughs from time to time. But when you berate others because you want to penis-measure yourself....they will leave. You don't know the behind the scenes drama. I get messages from members across the board saying "man, what a great helpful site" and on the flip-side, unfortunately, messages like "that guy is a dick, why did he attack me for asking about a canyon? I'm outta here" comes up more often than not.
I'm not asking you leave or stop posting content, and even when you post "half-content" stuff too....post ALL you want and whatever you want. Feel free to berate me and others all you want (but don't, use that brain of yours). Bogley allows for your freedom of speech. I don't take it personally anymore. There was a time when I was much younger when I would take it personally (just like the Levi Fackrell incident). And all I'm asking you in behalf of the many ex-members who have left (or are still silently watching) - be respectful. That's it. Simple.
Btw The usual crowd keeps me entertained plenty! There are some hilarious people here and just great all-around people! Ever attend a Bogley-Fest. They are very fun. Again, this is the idealist within me, but it's about a good, helpful community. And hopefully others don't leave just because a few other people ruin it for the crowd.●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
"He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
"There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
"...the first law of gear-dynamics: gear is like a gas - it will expand to fit the available space." -Wortman, Outside magazine.
"SEND IT, BRO!!"
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likesearwig654 liked this post
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10-16-2013, 06:32 PM #33
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Post Thanks / Like - 3 Likes
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10-16-2013, 07:07 PM #34THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
TRIP REPORTS: TIGER | BOBCAT | OCELOT | LYNX | SABERTOOTH | CHEETAH | PORCUPINE | LEOPARD
DON'T BE A STRANGER, LEAVE A COMMENT AND/OR SUBSCRIBE.
WWW.AMAZINGSLOTS.BLOGSPOT.COM
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 LikesAbsolute Gravity liked this post
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10-16-2013, 08:09 PM #35
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10-16-2013, 08:12 PM #36
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 LikesSlot Machine liked this post
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10-17-2013, 09:27 AM #37
I can only hope that the behavior seen in this thread isn't indicative of what I'd have to deal with should I ever attempt canyoneering, because it's the one activity here I would never do alone. I can tolerate my own @$$hole, but that's about it.
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Post Thanks / Like - 2 Likesxxnitsuaxx, Stray liked this post
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10-17-2013, 10:26 AM #38
100% agree! And I would suggest it's not. Try some canyons, you'll meet some great people. Or better yet, bring your own great friends with you. I remember camping next to a group of guys from Calif who had never done canyons. 1 guy wanted to try them, rounded up his buddies and said we are going to Zion and do some canyoneering. They took a 3 day ZAC class, then hit the canyons. They were like kids in a candy store -just loved it and raved about how much fun. And it reminded me of how I felt 1st time doing canyons. Do that and you don't have to deal with ---!
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10-17-2013, 10:53 AM #39
This post has gotten off subject, so if anyone else hears something to validate the rumor please let the community know. There are sick people out there and the situation that I mention is in canyons that you don't necessarily need to rappel, they are places where you can access and escape without technical gear. I will specifically say Christopher Creek, I doubt canyoneers would do this to their own community. Be careful out there!
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10-17-2013, 11:09 AM #40
Was the cut webbing found on one of the bolted rappels in Christopher Creek? If I remember correctly, most, if not all of the bolts, placed in the canyon do not have quicklinks and the webbing is just run thru the hangers, which after repeated loading and unloading could be the cause of the cut webbing. The bolt for the next to the last drop, which is poorly placed in tension and not shear, comes to mind.
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