EDK Tied Twice

[taatmk]

I came across this set up on the web today, and just wondered what the reasoning was behind it. It appears to be an EDK tied twice, with a biner backing it up in between the two knots. Has anyone else ever done it this way and what is the advantages or reasoning behind two EKD's like this?

It also looks like a retrievable anchor/webbing set up. Obviously though, the biner attached between the two EDK knots would need to be released before the rope pull, and the retrievable webbing attached in some other way to be able to come down.....

Appreciate any thoughts...

[PG Rob]

An EDK should always include 2 overhand knots with the 2nd being a backup, although they are typically tied next to each other. I would call this 2 overhands (1 EDK spread out) rather than 2 EDKs.

[hank moon]

ok, i just set it up to see what is happening. It could be a ghosting system attempt, but seems like lots of binding potential in there...

hard to say for sure w/o seeing the rest of the picture. where'd you find it?

[Absolute Gravity]

Is that biner only clipped into the one rapide? If so I don't see how that is a backup.

[hank moon]

Obviously though, the biner attached between the two EDK knots would need to be released before the rope pull, and the retrievable webbing attached in some other way to be able to come down.....

i initially thought the same thing, but the whole thing could come down as it is pictured (I realized once I set it up)

[Wasatch]

An EDK should always include 2 overhand knots with the 2nd being a backup, although they are typically tied next to each other. I would call this 2 overhands (1 EDK spread out) rather than 2 EDKs.

I was taught 2 EDKs about 6 inches apart with a 12 inch tail.

[Wasatch]

i initially thought the same thing, but the whole thing could come down as it is pictured (I realized once I set it up)

Yup, Hank is right. Very nice/easy retrievalable.

[Canyonater]

I still don't see how this can be retrieved, I guess I have to just set it up and try it...

[Canyonater]

Well I set it up and it doesn't seem to pull very easily, the side being pulled up needs to go back up and around the tree in order to pull it down and it just gets stuck. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

[WorkBad]

This method will damage the tree due to the friction going around the tree during the pull... Just sayn'. Secondly, why space the knots so far apart? Why not tie them snugly together?

I'd say that this system works in theory. Due to the inevitable damage to the tree and large amounts of friction generated, adding a pull cord would be a much better solution IMHO.

[hank moon]

Well I set it up and it doesn't seem to pull very easily, the side being pulled up needs to go back up and around the tree in order to pull it down and it just gets stuck. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Yeah, there is potential for binding...not a very reliable system, but "could" work (and if you like "could" in canyoneering, can I interest you in a cold night out?).

what got stuck when you tried it?

[deagol]

I tried this and think that there are easier ways to accomplish the same thing.

when I did it, my rapid was wide enough for the rope and biner to both wedge together at the vertex of the rapid and jam against one another to prohibit retrieval.

I re-did it with a smaller rapid and it worked fine. The trick was to use a rapid/rope combo where the rapid is narrow enough (or the rope is fat enough) to force the biner to not be along the side of the rope within the rapid, but rather ontop of it. Seems an easy thing to screw up in the field.

Also, a lot of friction on the pull and a lot of stuff falling down: two rapids and a biner, not to mention the webbing that could easily snag on something. I don't like it.

[Kuya]

would be a much better solution IMHO.

While I fully agree with this, I also really appreciate the post and for sharing yet another clever way to do something! LOVE IT

[Brian in SLC]

I was taught 2 EDKs about 6 inches apart with a 12 inch tail.

Pretty much negates the reason for using an EDK in the first place....

[Brian in SLC]

An EDK should always include 2 overhand knots with the 2nd being a backup, although they are typically tied next to each other.

Why? Do you think the single EDK is unsafe?

I'll admit to snuggin' in a second EDK against the first, usually, but, in situations where I have a reasonable probability for rope stickage, I go single.

Well dressed with adequate tails, is there anything really wrong with a single EDK? Other than it's simple and low profile, can be tied in the dark with mittens on, pretty easy to inspect, fairly easy to untie...

[hank moon]

http://user.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/EDK.html

the reference for recent EDK testing...pretty much