Alcatraz Rescue

[Slot Machine]

Not. So. Fast.

A suggested plan for the Captain:

1. Post the rest of their photos on Bogley. Pretty please.
2. Save up the money to ship all of their stuff back.
3. Ship their stuff back and hope they don't use it.

THEN all will be right in the world.

[qedcook]

Agreed, give the gear back. It seems like keeping it would just be to insult them and make fun of them on the forum.

[deagol]

You could argue that people should be appreciative of Kirk for taking the stuff out of the canyon, as it was left there by it's original owners. Doesn't it cease being "theirs" and become litter at that point?
Returning it might be the right thing to do, but unfair for Kirk to have to pay for the shipping cost.

[Absolute Gravity]

Hell, if they want the stuff back they know who to get a hold of... Probably be a little embarrassing but hey, take your lumps and get on with it. My guess is they are re-thinking their whole involvement in the sport.

[accadacca]

Should this thread be split?

[Slot Machine]

Should this thread be split?

Nope. It's following it's course.

[ratagonia]

Not. So. Fast.

A suggested plan for the Captain:

1. Post the rest of their photos on Bogley. Pretty please.
2. Save up the money to ship all of their stuff back.
3. Ship their stuff back and hope they don't use it.

THEN all will be right in the world.

The photos James T has already posted can be considered "fair use", being news.

However, posting more photos is both in bad taste and a violation of the original photographer's copyright.

Please don't.

While I am generally a fan of ridicule as a teaching tool, I believe enough has been delivered to make the point.

Tom

[ratagonia]

You could argue that people should be appreciative of Kirk for taking the stuff out of the canyon, as it was left there by it's original owners. Doesn't it cease being "theirs" and become litter at that point?
Returning it might be the right thing to do, but unfair for Kirk to have to pay for the shipping cost.

Actually, not. The 'finder' is obliged to make a reasonable effort to find the 'loser', before updating to 'keeper'.

(couldn't find a citation - perhaps a more advanced shade-tree lawyer will pipe in).

Tom

[Absolute Gravity]

While I am generally a fan of ridicule as a teaching tool, I believe enough has been delivered to make the point.

I would consider you a tenured expert of ridicule as a teaching tool, having been on the receiving end of a relatively easy but effective berating from you. If you say enough, than it is probably enough.

[jamestkirk]

Wow I would hate to have my camera found by somebody else with photos that didn't show me in the best light ...
...I've had my share of embarrassing photos when I was trying to have fun and be a goofball.

be it known that my participation in this thread would be nonexistent had the party exercised proper style and ethics. since they were such a junk-show and trashed the canyon and wasted the effort of SAR, they've earned the community's wrath. once you bring in SAR then it's public.

Agreed, give the gear back. It seems like keeping it would just be to insult them and make fun of them on the forum.

so far we've just used some webbing to beef up that anchor in Larry. and the nice gloves pictured above were utilized by my partner who dragged them out. personally, i feel that shit was abandoned, because it was! they totally trashed the canyon and called in SAR to boot! it wasn't easy getting the packs out. like i said, they were abandoned in the slot. one was abandoned before the 'crux'!

now, i posses the camera and 2 cards. my partners have the packs and don't feel like putting any more effort into delivering them to the owner's doorsteps. sure, if they want to come to moab, then we might give them some stuff. also, i'm quite happy to send the camera and cards in the mail. that's easy.

as much as i'd like to keep posting photo's, i shall refrain unless i have to prove a point. i'm really pissed though. i want to go back in Alcatraz and clean out the rest of the shit left behind. i live here, i feel like this is my back yard. we weren't prepared to act as a garbage scow! we probably packed out 30lbs of gear.

Kirk Out

[ratagonia]

Thank you for your janitorial services, and restraint.

Tom

[Byron]

Holy Moses! I just checked back into this thread, as the last time I was here it only had 2 or 3 posts in it...I wondered what all the commotion was about.

My God, this is hilarious! Hats off to you Kirk, quite crafty and clever! You're a friggin' funny guy!

I say post more pictures, if they show anything of interest...like more of Mr. Tux. I wonder if it was he or the guy with the giant belly that got stuck? Classic, man...

I would keep the gear...finders keepers! I found a nice smartphone last spring at the Jacob Hamlin Arch route of Coyote and sent it back to the owner in Salt Lake, I had called her and asked just to send me back the cost of shipping, but it never came. It was only five bucks but still, I did the "right" thing? Not anymore...I find it, it's mine.

BTW, Picard was a chump and Kirk was THE MAN because he took full advantage of tapping the nookie every time the opportunity presented itself.

[Absolute Gravity]

now, i posses the camera and 2 cards. my partners have the packs and don't feel like putting any more effort into delivering them to the owner's doorsteps. sure, if they want to come to moab, then we might give them some stuff. also, i'm quite happy to send the camera and cards in the mail. that's easy.

Totally agree if they don't make the effort to make it right. And I'd almost bet that they aren't that interested in getting any of it back anyway. But if they contacted me, maybe offered a case of good beer, you know, made it right I'd be happy to give them their shit. What would you want an 11mm rope for anyway . If they want to be canyoneers they'll make it right, if not I'm sure you can find a use for that cumberbun, right?

[Absolute Gravity]

be it known that my participation in this thread would be nonexistent had the party exercised proper style and ethics.

Hope you stick around, you're killing it.

[jman]

I was gonna add that anyone who posts about accidents, whether it happened to them or another person in there party, just expect a good lashing from the welcoming commitee.

And don't take it too personal, but do - people need to learn from their own mistakes and the mistakes of others. Either rappelling in a very low friction mode while your hand is numb down a waterfall or wearing a tuxedo in a canyon or messing up a anchor or "vandalizing" a canyon or poaching a canyon and getting caught - there are always a lesson to be learned.

And Tom is the master of ridicule but does so in a constructive way (most if the time). But a few, not so much. There ego gets in the way.


-Brett

[accadacca]

Nope. It's following it's course.

Ah, gotcha. I had a hard time following it. Entertaining read.

[trackrunner]

You could argue that people should be appreciative of Kirk for taking the stuff out of the canyon, as it was left there by it's original owners. Doesn't it cease being "theirs" and become litter at that point?
Returning it might be the right thing to do, but unfair for Kirk to have to pay for the shipping cost.

I am grateful he removed that stuff from the canyon. THANK YOU for cleaning up after others and doing the right thing by practicing leave no trace for others to come and enjoy!

there is a difference between mislaid property & lost property. mislaid property becomes unclaimed property after a while. but that is for lawyers to argue about common law history. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost,_m...doned_property

I try to live my life by doing the right thing. The right thing is for the owners of the stuff to ask for it back, and pay any shipping costs before it is shipped or pick up in person. Since the poster also carried the items out, purchasing his favorite beverage would be in good taste even if they don't want their stuff back.

The poster has identified he has it, and now they have to ask for it, or it will become unclaimed property. When they contact the poster they may need to listen to his rant since he stands on the soap box on top of their gear.

[Slot Machine]

However, posting more photos is both in bad taste and a violation of the original photographer's copyright. ... While I am generally a fan of ridicule as a teaching tool, I believe enough has been delivered to make the point.

I would keep the gear...finders keepers! I found a nice smartphone last spring at the Jacob Hamlin Arch route of Coyote and sent it back to the owner in Salt Lake, I had called her and asked just to send me back the cost of shipping, but it never came. It was only five bucks but still, I did the "right" thing? Not anymore...I find it, it's mine.

I was gonna add that anyone who posts about accidents, whether it happened to them or another person in there party, just expect a good lashing from the welcoming commitee.

[spinesnaper]

We are nothing here if not neighborly!

Love the incriminating photos.

Captain-who knows perhaps shame will keep the owners from claiming their goods.

Finders keepers losers weepers is from Roman law. Those are the folks who like to nail people up to timbers and pour molten metal down the throats of people they disagreed with. It is generally invoked by the school yard bully after you have been pinned to the asphalt and liberated from your possessions to justify keeping the contents of your pockets. Our laws tend to follow judeo christian values ( do unto others...etc.).

By posting here, I think you can consider that you have adequately notified the owners that you are holding their items. Please let us know if they contact you. Perhaps you can encourage them to post here.

Ken

[Byron]

pour molten metal down the throats of people

That is soooo gnarly!!! I gotta look that up!