Telephone & Snakes!

[ghawk]

So my wife, my friend Brendan and his Dad and me all headed down to Zion this weekend to run through Telephone. I hadn't done it before and it looked like it could be fun. It's a long and beautiful hike up to the top. We took a moderate pace and reached the head of the canyon in somewhere between 2 to 3 hours. We dropped in and did rap after rap after rap. It's pretty much a bunch of rappels in succession without a lot of anything else. There are a few spots to downclimb, but some of the places that look like potential downclimbs are trickier because the walls in this canyon are so slick.

So we headed down and were having a pretty good time when I dropped this downclimb and started walking this narrow section. All of a sudden, out of the corner of my eye I saw movement and I jumped forward really fast. I looked down and saw this 4 foot snake strike at the wall next to me . I climbed up the between the canyon walls as quick as I could while the snake was coiling up below me, watching me, and looking ready to strike at me. He was not a happy camper! It was then that he started hissing at me as well, which if I had known more about snakes would have made our lives a lot easier. However, since my snake knowledge isn't that high I noted that he wasn't rattling but that he looked similar to rattlers I had seen (though a more yellow body than I had seen on others) and either way he was angry and I didn't want to get bit by any snake.

He was stuck right in the middle of a narrow section where it was hard to get high enough to avoid him. My wife and Bredan's dad aren't the best at stemming and so I worried about the snake biting them as they came across. Brendan had a trekking pole that we thought we could use to flick the snake downcanyon, but there were even tighter chokepoints there so we didn't want to do that. This whole time the snake just watched my every move. We ended up getting some logs and wood from above and throwing them down to give him a place to hide under. While we threw them down the snake continued to hiss really loud. I'm not sure if any of the wood we threw injured him but when he was under the wood he stopped making noise and we didn't see him again. I figure he was pretty scared. We got everybody across and moved downcanyon. Had I been sure he was a rattler I think I would have done the same. Throwing rocks at him or finding another way to kill the snake would have been fairly difficult in that setting because you couldn't get close enough without putting yourself in striking range. Anyway, this morning I got online and did my research. It was a gopher snake and here's more information on them for those of you who would like to educate yourself (see page 4). http://www.nps.gov/grba/naturescienc...ld%20guide.pdf

Overall the canyon was interesting if you like lots of rappels (I think we did around 15), but fairly one dimensional (besides the snake part). I like a little more variety in canyons I think so I won't be heading back, unless I go for the telephone to behunin route. Overall a great day in Zion, some fun rappels, and a beautiful and long hike.


(my wife on the first rappel into the canyon. We just rapped 200 feet from the top, rather than use the middle anchor on the tree, though the pull wasn't as clean)


Brendan pointing at the snake in the pile of wood


Another picture of the pile of wood with the snake under it. I didn't get any while he was visible because I was hanging out ten feet up. Anyone else have fun snake stories? What would you have done in this situation? Once, a few years ago, I was stemming for about 20 feet about 6 feet up and this baby rattler was following us along underneath. We were able to avoid him eventually. I've almost stepped on rattlers a few times but they have always warned me off and I back away. I've never had a snake try to strike at me until this time. I'm glad he wasn't as dangerous as he could have been.


My wife looking good!


A nice spot for a picture


Lots of rappels

[hank moon]

Hey, nice TR and pix!

Last time I was in Telephone (just poking around, not actually doing the canyon), there was a big Gopher in there. Watch carefully for the body puffing and depuffing (lots of camera shake, sorry).

[summitseeker]

Looks like a fox snake. good idea to stay away thou.

[Wasatch]

Saw a snake there back in 03 as well.

[ilipichicuma]

Hey, it's good to see that you guys finally got out! Good work! That one's been on the list for a while. I like lots of rappels.

[ratagonia]

"Throwing rocks at him or finding another way to kill the snake would have been fairly difficult in that setting because you couldn't get close enough without putting yourself in striking range."

You disturb HIM in HIS home, and you claim the right to KILL him because he is inconvenient for you?

Thank you for not doing so.

Remind me never to invite you to my house.

Tom

[peakbaggers]

I think it would be a violation of park rules to kill it and you could be fined.

[hank moon]

A few years back a group descending a narrow slot came upon a very inconvenient rattler that could not be persuaded to move. They draped a T-shirt over it and moved quickly past. Can't remember whether the shirt was retrieved via stick or sacrificed.

[Bluff-Canyoneer]

I stepped right over this pair a few weeks ago while hiking down Spring Canyon near Bluff on our way to climb The Bant.

[ghawk]

"Throwing rocks at him or finding another way to kill the snake would have been fairly difficult in that setting because you couldn't get close enough without putting yourself in striking range."

You disturb HIM in HIS home, and you claim the right to KILL him because he is inconvenient for you?

Thank you for not doing so.

Remind me never to invite you to my house.

Tom

Did you read the rest of it? We went with another option. If I couldn't find any way to get past an aggressive snake that I think could potentially be poisonous, then I would make that call. However, we found another option, one that worked out for all of us. If my knowledge of snakes had been better then we wouldn't have worried so much in the situation and that was why I posted this, so others could be more educated as well. Every time I have come across a rattle snake I have done my best to get out of his way, and that has always worked out. I respect nature and do my best to leave no impact. If it came down to a situation where a potentially poisonous snake is stuck between two big rappels, is very agitated because of this, and I don't have a safe way to get my group around (I had some in my group who couldn't stem very high), then I would make the call if necessary. In this case we found another way and I was proud of that... Is there more to be learned, are there more options that I wasn't aware of at the time? Absolutely. The shirt idea someone suggested sounds great. So I'll keep learning and gaining skills and understanding. However, I don't think this situation was as simple as your comment implied and I did my best where the safety of a newer group to canyoneering was my top priority.

[ratagonia]

Did you read the rest of it? We went with another option. If I couldn't find any way to get past an aggressive snake that I think could potentially be poisonous, then I would make that call. However, we found another option, one that worked out for all of us. If my knowledge of snakes had been better then we wouldn't have worried so much in the situation and that was why I posted this, so others could be more educated as well. Every time I have come across a rattle snake I have done my best to get out of his way, and that has always worked out. I respect nature and do my best to leave no impact. If it came down to a situation where a potentially poisonous snake is stuck between two big rappels, is very agitated because of this, and I don't have a safe way to get my group around (I had some in my group who couldn't stem very high), then I would make the call if necessary. In this case we found another way and I was proud of that... Is there more to be learned, are there more options that I wasn't aware of at the time? Absolutely. The shirt idea someone suggested sounds great. So I'll keep learning and gaining skills and understanding. However, I don't think this situation was as simple as your comment implied and I did my best where the safety of a newer group to canyoneering was my top priority.

Yes, I did read the entire post, and am happy that you did not go to the "nuclear option".

I have a friend who killed a snake because he could not figure out a way past it. I have significantly less respect for this friend now. It was a mistake.

I killed a snake in Telephone Canyon once. I tried to hop over it, and just as I did, it moved to the place my foot landed an instant later. Very unfortunate.

My point is that killing a snake should be your LAST resort, after trying many, many things. Empty a pack and toss it out there, the snake might see the dark place and go into the pack to hide. If you have to leave the pack behind, I would give you a new one.

I have seen many snakes in canyons, and have always figured out how to get past them without trouble. I recognize that there may be situations where this could be difficult, but you have many tools at your disposal. You still have a rope rigged on the last rappel? How about a throw to a guided rappel to get past him? How about??? There's a lot of possibilities, the LAST one to consider is offing the snake.

Agreed?

Tom

[Erik B]

Found this little dude in Heaps on Monday... I was rather amazed to find him in such a place.

[ghawk]

Yes, I did read the entire post, and am happy that you did not go to the "nuclear option".

I have a friend who killed a snake because he could not figure out a way past it. I have significantly less respect for this friend now. It was a mistake.

I killed a snake in Telephone Canyon once. I tried to hop over it, and just as I did, it moved to the place my foot landed an instant later. Very unfortunate.

My point is that killing a snake should be your LAST resort, after trying many, many things. Empty a pack and toss it out there, the snake might see the dark place and go into the pack to hide. If you have to leave the pack behind, I would give you a new one.

I have seen many snakes in canyons, and have always figured out how to get past them without trouble. I recognize that there may be situations where this could be difficult, but you have many tools at your disposal. You still have a rope rigged on the last rappel? How about a throw to a guided rappel to get past him? How about??? There's a lot of possibilities, the LAST one to consider is offing the snake.

Agreed?

Tom

Completely agreed. And we did consider a guided rappel, but the geometry didn't work out there. So we did consider a lot of things and went with one that worked. And yes, killing the snake was one thing we considered but it would have been our last resort. Your are right, though, that in the moment I was not being as creative as I could have been in considering other solutions like using shirts or backpacks. So I appreciate the discussion on the thread because it helps me look at things from a different perspective and find better ways to problem solve in the future.

[ilipichicuma]

Or if I had been there, I would have just told you it wasn't a venomous snake. :) Good work anyway!

[Jolly Green]

In July, I went through Englestead and right in the long middle section we noticed a mouse running on a small section of the canyon wall a foot or two off the ground as they often do. After a few feet of just being mesmerized by this mouse I saw my father in law suddenly run like an 18 year old track star after stepping 6 inches or so away from a mid-size rattler. Lucky for him, I think the rattler was hunting the mouse and didn't even pay attention to him until he almost got squashed. Luckily the canyon was 5 feet wide and all of us were able to relive the glory days with unbelievable hurdles and long jumps around the snake. Glad it wasn't 2 feet wide like your situation.

[ghawk]

Or if I had been there, I would have just told you it wasn't a venomous snake. :) Good work anyway!

and who's fault was that, thou who chosest Korea over canyons?