Blarney and Sandthrax flashflood

[Iceaxe]

Someone sent this video link to me. It's worth a look.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151848490905100

If I understand things correctly this group suffered injuries in this flash flood. I believe this is also the same group that required SAR eariler in the year in Constrychnine.


I'm still trying to understand all the details.

[accadacca]

Damn! Not good...

[accadacca]

Same group...

[Lonnie Utah]

I believe this is also the same group that required SAR eariler in the year in Constrychnine.

Maybe it time to consider a new hobby?

[accadacca]

Their camp area after the flood.

[Iceaxe]

I believe this is also the same group that required SAR eariler in the year in Constrychnine.

Here is the link to the Constrychnine accident:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?68283

It hear these guys also had a fall in Hogwarts?!? WTF????

[jguest]

Thanks for sharing these videos guys! You don't really know the power of a flash flood until you see one. I haven't personally seen one yet so I'm learning through your videos right now. Thanks!

[hank moon]

If I understand things correctly this group suffered injuries in this flash flood. I believe this is also the same group that required SAR eariler in the year in Constrychnine.

It would be good to know for sure if this is the same group - perhaps some safety outreach could be made...

[DougInGJCO]

It would be good to know for sure if this is the same group - perhaps some safety outreach could be made...

It is true some of the same people were involved in two of the three events mentioned: an anchor failure in Hogwarts in August 2012, a webbing failure in Constrictnine (rub through by sandstone abrasion) in April 2013 and getting caught in a flash flood this past weekend.

Thankfully I can say that while I was at North Wash and associated with the victims each of these times but I have not been in the same canyon with them at the times of any of these incidents.

Before the world gets quick to pass judgments -
-- in Hogwarts at least 18 people from 3 or more groups had used that same anchor over the previous 3 days with no
incident
-- in Constrictnine the team that experienced the webbing being sawed through by sandstone abrasion made a mistake not
inspecting that webbing. The fellow who fell was the first to admit his mistake.
Numerous other parties had gone down that day and not a one seemed to have questioned the webbing or made it
redundant. Were they 'lucky' so we do not point fingers at the. I did that same canyon 4 weeks earlier and I could have
doubled up that webbing but it did not occur to me to do so at that time (though we did inspect and did not rub-saw
the webbing over rock)
-- this weekend just past there were people headed to at least 6 different canyons Saturday morning. The weather was
fine overhead during the walks in. A massive wind direction change moved rain and hail clouds over the Irish Canyons
from the direction of the Henry Mtns. after some groups had already started in. Other groups (mine included) did longer
approaches so we were not yet in our chosen canyons when that weather change occurred so we were spared being
in a slot with the flash flooding.

As for the video footage of the Sandthrax camp location, the little access road at Leprechaun Canyon has always served as a dam to prevent water flowing between Hwy 95 and the slickrock along the east side of the road, where the Sandthrax camp is located. That road/ dam for some reason was breached by a huge rush of flash flood waters and all the water that the BLM and State DOT had previously routed under the highway through a concrete culvert came rushing downhill parallel to the highway making for not one flooding North Wash Creek but two. It was this 2nd, misplaced, creek that came raging through the camping location.

This weekend - the campers rebuilt an exit road as you see in the video footage to work our own way out from the far side of the washout of the Sandthrax access road. The party in Blarney sustained an ankle and a knee injury and with help from other members of our extended party managed to get themselves safely out of the canyon and ultimately to medical help.

Just a passing point of interest too - the morning after the Constrictnine incident we asked around at the group breakfast gathering if people would contribute $$ toward buying equipment for the two county SAR teams that mobilized for that event. First thought in passing the hat was we might be able to collect $200; then someone said let's shoot for $250. By the time it was counted, $1000 had been collected. I would say these are people who showed they know and appreciate the value of rescue.

Incidentally there were 2 of 6 members in the Blarney Canyon group that have been ACA trained in the past year. Of the leaders in the various parties that day there was well over 35 years of accumulated canyoneering experience

[flatiron]

Who maintains that road? UDOT? BLM? Or does anyone? Any wild guess on when it might get graded - Sandthrax sure handles a lot of traffic.

[Danno]

Who maintains that road? UDOT? BLM? Or does anyone? Any wild guess on when it might get graded - Sandthrax sure handles a lot of traffic.

UDOT had a grader and front loader on site within a few hours. They graded it from the highway and all the way around the loop on the north side of the campground. There were still quite a few cars in camp, so they were able to drive out more easily when the grading was completed.

[Iceaxe]

Who maintains that road? UDOT? BLM? Or does anyone?

I believe UDOT did originally. Before canyoneers discovered North Wash and made the Sandthrax campground home the place was used by UDOT to park heavy construction equipment. Since those days I know the BLM has been watching over our shoulder and monitoring the Sandthrax campground. Officially I believe it is BLM who has jurisdiction.

[Iceaxe]

UDOT had a grader and front loader on site within a few hours. They graded it from the highway and all the way around the loop on the north side of the campground.

Sweet...

[flatiron]

Sweet...

Double sweet !!! DOT's do just great work - love those guys.

[DougInGJCO]

The Sandthrax road has been graded. It is as passable as ever again after the flooding. We sent word of the washout an it was repaired that day.

As of Sunday at 5 PM the short road leading into Lep Canyons, the one that was breached in the flash flood and directed waters toward the campsite had not be repaired. It is a full breach so may be a more significant repair challenge. Until that road is repaired so it again directs Lep Canyon waters toward the concrete culvert under the highway then into North Wash Creek the Sandthrax campsite will still be prone to flooding in any future, sufficiently large flash floods.

Along UT Hwy 95 there are numerous places in the North Wash area, 3 or 4 that I know of between Mile posts 27 and 33, where the south-bound lane of the road is about to be undermined if creek levels rise and erosion on that bank continues.

[DougInGJCO]

The Sandthrax road has been graded. It is as passable as ever again after the flooding. We sent word of the washout and it was re-graded that day.

The road into Lep Canyons which also serves to dam the Lep Canyon water so it does not flood Sandthrax camp area is completely breached. Until that is fully repaired any time Lep Canyon flash floods Sandthrax camp area may be in jeopardy of flooding again.

Between Mile Posts 27 and 33 there are at least 4 places where, as of Sept. 15th North Wash creek had begun to undermine the south-bound lane of UT Hwy 95. Until those are repaired (pretty big job, Carl the unemployed transportation engineer/ canyoneer?) drive carefully and more towards the center of the road.

[ratagonia]

Someone sent this video link to me. It's worth a look.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151848490905100

If I understand things correctly this group suffered injuries in this flash flood. I believe this is also the same group that required SAR eariler in the year in Constrychnine.


I'm still trying to understand all the details.

and... just barely avoided disaster in Hogwarts earlier, if my source is correct...



A repeat offender. Think we could interest the County DA in a Reckless Endangerment charge???

Tom

[Scott P]

There were flash flood warnings out all over the region last weekend. Without trying to sound judgmental, and we all make mistakes, but I guess I don't understand why people want to do slot canyons with flash flood warnings out.

Seems to be happening a lot lately.

[Canyon Dog]

If I understand things correctly this group suffered injuries in this flash flood.
.........
I'm still trying to understand all the details.

To clear things up, here are the deets on the situation and injuries sustained:
The approach hike for Blarney being relatively short put the group in-canyon well ahead of those groups that had headed up to the Leps and over to Trachyotomy. Here is a shot of the sky from the group at Trachyotomy, which is what was seen looking upwind from the top of Blarney as well.

The clouds moved over the Irish canyons after the Blarney group was halfway through. My understanding is that the folks had just started the descent into the Leps when the rain started falling and were able to sit it out well out of the way of the ensuing flood waters. No such luck in Blarney. We were completing the last rappel when the rain started; by the time the last man was on rope, a nice brown waterfall had developed. The first few down had been ushered out of the chamber to head downstream and get up out of the water as soon as they could, while the group leaders braved the rushing water to retrieve the rope (which proved to be invaluable in getting everyone to safety).
The first 3 in the group found a spot where they were able to stem up and get out of the water. Unfortunately one of them slipped back down (about 10 feet) and twisted her knee, but was able to quickly stem back up and brace herself. The 3 in the rear, now with rope in hand, found an accessible roost just above the spot where they can be seen in the video. Our lead climber scrambled up and was able to see the 3 ahead of us safely stemmed about 50-60 feet downstream. Using a knife, he was able to dig a small hole to create a jug handle to anchor our rope. He ran the rope through the hole and passed it down for the other two below to use as a handline up to the ledge.
At some point as the rain subsided, one of the ladies in the front group attempted to scramble a bit higher to reach a ledge that would allow them to sit, rather than remain stemmed. Unfortunately her foothold was lost and she fell about 15 feet back into the slot, where she fractured (or broke) a bone in her foot upon impact. Miraculously, she was able to get herself back up into her stemming position above the water without any assistance. Sheer willpower & adrenaline drove her to rescue herself in a terrible situation.
Once the flow had receded enough to be considered safe, two of us guys went forward to help the ladies back to the safety of the ledge. That is when we learned of the knee and foot injury. We got them up on the ledge, swapped out some wet clothes and they broke out the space blanket, snacks and water. It was then decided to send two of the team members out to get help since we had two injuries in the group. They returned to the rim above us with a small army of fellow canyoneers quite some time later. An assessment of the situation led to the understanding that setting ropes for ascent would be difficult and time consuming, as well as the fact that the injured ladies would very likely be unable to ascend ropes anyhow. With clouds still in the sky, we knew there was also a strong possibility of another rain storm rolling through. The four of us on the ledge decided that we were going to cowboy up and get the hell out of the canyon under our own power. Two of the guys from the rim began setting up their rap to come down and provide muscle for assisting the injured ladies.
I set up the rope to lower the ladies through a few downclimb sections and by bracing their arms on the walls, they were able to continue through the slot and keep most of their weight off their injured knee and foot. It was not pretty, but they were real troopers and with plenty of encouragement were able to keep moving downstream. Our help from the rim arrived 20 minutes later and provided some relief by carrying packs and offering encouragement. Once the canyon opened up enough that they couldn't reach across with their arms, the new guys came up and provided direct assistance to the injured ladies. Before long, the one with the broken foot had a piggy-back ride that lasted all the way back to the car. The woman with the injured knee was given walking support by the other guy that had joined us.
We were greeted by a large group of fellow canyoneers back at the trailhead, who provided more dry clothes, snacks, water, hugs, cheers, etc.
Upon return to Sandthrax, we discovered that the flood had wrecked our campsites, buried and swept away gear, including the car keys of one of our crew. Fortunately a concerted effort by all was able to retrieve most everything, including the keys, which were found after a lot of digging through mud and brush. Most everyone packed up their mud-packed stuff, dug out a couple of cars and got the heck out of Dodge.

[ratagonia]

It is true some of the same people were involved in two of the three events mentioned: an anchor failure in Hogwarts in August 2012, a webbing failure in Constrictnine (rub through by sandstone abrasion) in April 2013 and getting caught in a flash flood this past weekend.

Thankfully I can say that while I was at North Wash and associated with the victims each of these times but I have not been in the same canyon with them at the times of any of these incidents.

Before the world gets quick to pass judgments -
-- in Hogwarts at least 18 people from 3 or more groups had used that same anchor over the previous 3 days with no
incident
-- in Constrictnine the team that experienced the webbing being sawed through by sandstone abrasion made a mistake not
inspecting that webbing. The fellow who fell was the first to admit his mistake.
Numerous other parties had gone down that day and not a one seemed to have questioned the webbing or made it
redundant. Were they 'lucky' so we do not point fingers at the. I did that same canyon 4 weeks earlier and I could have
doubled up that webbing but it did not occur to me to do so at that time (though we did inspect and did not rub-saw
the webbing over rock)
-- this weekend just past there were people headed to at least 6 different canyons Saturday morning. The weather was
fine overhead during the walks in. A massive wind direction change moved rain and hail clouds over the Irish Canyons
from the direction of the Henry Mtns. after some groups had already started in. Other groups (mine included) did longer
approaches so we were not yet in our chosen canyons when that weather change occurred so we were spared being
in a slot with the flash flooding.

As for the video footage of the Sandthrax camp location, the little access road at Leprechaun Canyon has always served as a dam to prevent water flowing between Hwy 95 and the slickrock along the east side of the road, where the Sandthrax camp is located. That road/ dam for some reason was breached by a huge rush of flash flood waters and all the water that the BLM and State DOT had previously routed under the highway through a concrete culvert came rushing downhill parallel to the highway making for not one flooding North Wash Creek but two. It was this 2nd, misplaced, creek that came raging through the camping location.

This weekend - the campers rebuilt an exit road as you see in the video footage to work our own way out from the far side of the washout of the Sandthrax access road. The party in Blarney sustained an ankle and a knee injury and with help from other members of our extended party managed to get themselves safely out of the canyon and ultimately to medical help.

Just a passing point of interest too - the morning after the Constrictnine incident we asked around at the group breakfast gathering if people would contribute $$ toward buying equipment for the two county SAR teams that mobilized for that event. First thought in passing the hat was we might be able to collect $200; then someone said let's shoot for $250. By the time it was counted, $1000 had been collected. I would say these are people who showed they know and appreciate the value of rescue.

Incidentally there were 2 of 6 members in the Blarney Canyon group that have been ACA trained in the past year. Of the leaders in the various parties that day there was well over 35 years of accumulated canyoneering experience

Thanks for the information, Doug, very interesting.

But I am confused. This sounds like a lot of excuse-making and ex post facto justification. One incident - can happen to anyone. Two incidents - uh, maybe exceptionally bad luck. But three incidents has the stink of gross negligence. Why is this person STILL leading beginners into dangerous situations? I think those of you in Grand Junction who have knowledge of the facts and access to the community have a duty to prevent this individual from leading beginners in the future.

"2 of 6 members in the Blarney Canyon group that have been ACA trained in the past year. Of the leaders in the various parties that day there was well over 35 years of accumulated canyoneering experience"

I am a big advocate of training, but training does not take the place of good judgment. I am a big advocate of experience, but quite a few people have done quite a few canyons and have not gained wisdom or what we call 'experience' in the process. The facts speak for themselves.

It is sweet that you guys pulled out some hard-earned cash to turn over to the SAR Team. An excellent gesture. However, getting rescued and paying for it is NOT the same as being competent and not needing rescue.

"-- in Hogwarts at least 18 people from 3 or more groups had used that same anchor over the previous 3 days with no
incident"

"-- in Constrictnine the team that experienced the webbing being sawed through by sandstone abrasion made a mistake not inspecting that webbing. The fellow who fell was the first to admit his mistake. Numerous other parties had gone down that day and not a one seemed to have questioned the webbing or made it redundant. Were they 'lucky' so we do not point fingers at the. I did that same canyon 4 weeks earlier and I could have doubled up that webbing but it did not occur to me to do so at that time (though we did inspect and did not rub-saw the webbing over rock)"

The suggested incompetence of other parties does not justify the incompetence of subsequent parties.

In both Hogwarts and Constrictnine, the parties up front may or may not have inspected the webbing, and the webbing may or may not have been good when they did so. You make a claim as if you watched every person of the previous parties on that rappel, which I find difficult to believe. You do not KNOW who looked at what in there, and your claim is malicious slander. The fact we KNOW is that "the fellow" did not competently inspect and/or use the anchor, and death could have been the result.

Why are these anchors not backed up? Why why why!!! There are a LOT of questions, but the main one is why is this fellow leading beginners out to their doom?

I was under the impression, Doug, that YOU were "this fellow". Please tell me this is not so. I think it would be a good thing to reveal this persons name to the community so we can all run away very fast whenever he shows up.

Tom

ps. and YES, I am a frakkin' a-hole, because I believe people that recklessly endanger other people's lives should be taken behind the dumpster and beaten to a pulp, at least metaphorically. Being a frakkin' a-hole is my job around here, and I take pride in my work.