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Thread: Death in Birch Hollow

  1. #21
    This is so sad and tragic. Condolences to the family, I can't imagine what you're going through.

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  4. #22
    Rap Artist Wanna-be
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    I too am saddened by such a terrible loss when from all accounts this accident could have been avoided. My thoughts are with her family.
    One of the first things I learned about canyoneering was "backup on rappel". I may seem slow to some of the pros out there, but at the end of the day, I want to go home in one piece.
    I hope this serves as a reminder to everyone how important safety is.

  5. #23
    Unfortunately, this was the daughter of friends from HS. I do not know the details, nor have any answers to questions. I know they are dealing with grief that words cannot fathom. I ache for them.

  6. #24
    Looks like this brought out some new members, welcome to all of you and phinux, excellent post.

    I've been canyoneering and rappelling for a long time. I've been around plenty of noobs, and the one thing I've noticed that they have in common is the START. It seems that once they get a few feet from the edge, they're good to go. But getting going is where all the herky jerkey movements occur.

    It may take some people 10 or 50 raps to get comfortable and dial it in. If you have a partner that just "isn't there" yet, then a belay should be a matter of course. Folks need to slow down a bit, too.
    The end of the world for some...
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  8. #25
    I'm thinking the chances that Birch Hollow will be under a permit system soon are increasing every day.
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  9. #26
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    I'm thinking the chances that Birch Hollow will be under a permit system soon are increasing every day.
    Suppose it did - I assume the BLM would manage it? But where would their office be? the BLM's office is in St. George on the main Riverdale Road. Heck of a drive, for a permit.

    But then again...a permit isn't going to in any way shape or form, increase a person's safety. Perhaps discourage them to do the route because they didn't pull a permit? I dunno...but I agree Scott, I could see it going this way too far to easily now.

    Yay for regulation! Yay for liberalism ideals! i mean...not yay. Personal accountability. And self-proclaimed leaders are getting way over their heads when it comes to leading others. I know people who tell other beginners that canyons such as Imlay and Heaps Canyon are "super fun" and "a little challenging", but they say it from their perspective as a rock-climber that can easily do 5.11 and 5.12s. They forget to break it down, or rather become empathatic and try to look at the sport and canyons through their eyes and not a 5.12 climber's eyes.

    I think it's a good reminder to all of us that we when we explain the technical aspect of the canyons that we need overemphasize or explain clearly the difficulties, and not just "epic". It should be "this canyon is DANGEROUS, there are many potholes that can be 4-10feet below the lip and that you better know how to climb-out of or escape, with hours upon hours of exposure to frigid water, with a early hike-in and late hike out, and you have to be swift, with everyone in the group being proficient in rappelling, etc....etc.." and not just some definition of "hella fun".

    Noobs will see the latter description and think, oh yeah, rappelling isn't hard, it's just walking backwards off a cliff. But then they don't know any better about awkward starts or scary ledges to cross before you can rappel, etc.

    Hmm...maybe we should start a thread titled "awkward rappel starts" and put a few pics and the canyon name, and explain the "best way" down em, etc???? Just to get noobs minds a thinkin' and preparing.
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  11. #27
    I'm saddened but not shocked that everyone is piling on to this poor women's partners for not providing a fireman's belay. I would think before you sling blame around, especially if friends of the victim start reading this. Unfortunately a fireman's belay is not the great panacea that a lot of canyoneers seem to think it is. To wit:

    1) Nowhere in any published accounts of this accident so far (at least that I have seen) is there mention that no fireman's belay was performed. Or, there may have been legitimate reasons for not having one in this location (such as loose rock).

    2) There are legitimate questions on the effectiveness of fireman's belays. For more reading, see this testing done by cavers.

    3) Very, very few canyoneers have received training on fireman's belays, or caught a simulated fall using a fireman's belay, because simulated falls are notoriously difficult to stage safely. I think many that would try this might be surprised to find that it isn't as easy to catch someone falling using a fireman's belay as they might think it is. There is a lot more involved than "just pull the rope tight". Things aren't so black and white.

    4) In my experience, most canyoneers don't know how to perform an adequate fireman's belay anyway. I can't count how many people I've seen giving these sorts of belays incorrectly. It's rare that I've seen it done right. Check out this photo, from a website of a Zion-based company offering canyoneering courses, which illustrates how most people give these belays. Note that she is making at least three technique mistakes that I can see, each of which inhibits her ability to perform an adequate fireman's belay. Any guesses?

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  13. #28
    I can't imagine watching someone fall like that with the aftermath. I work in the Emergency Dept and frequently hear stories from paramedics of people who see an accident or a serious medical event and freeze up even though they know basic ways they can help. My condolences to everyone involved, especially those who were there. I have a friend who required a rescue from the Zion SAR team years ago and he turned that into motivation to improve rather than walking away at a low moment.

    I agree that there's little that can be done for noobs who see a cool picture of a canyon, read how to rappel, and set out for an epic adventure. As someone who frequently goes out with different groups, often with noobs, this is a great reminder that I am the one that is taking responsibility for the group. I know the risks of canyoneering and am assuming those risks for myself and everyone I lead when I go out. While there is no way to prepare for every possible situation, if you are going to lead somebody through a canyon, please do more to prepare than simply taking a basic canyoneering course. Go through several canyons with people who know what they are doing and let them teach you.

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  15. #29
    Sad, tragic event. My condolences to friends and family.

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  17. #30
    Curious if this accident was at the big open dry fall?

    From Tom's beta:

    Walk the watercourse. An hour of interesting canyon hiking with just a bit of brush leads to a 120-foot drop. Rappel this using a block or tree. (Do not add to the erosion by taking the nasty trail around the side). Be very careful of loose rock on this rappel - might be best to set up a guided rappel.

    ***

    R1: Rappel 120 feet (40 m) off a block or tree. Be careful of loose rock, and of the sharp, unstable talus at the bottom of the rappel.

    Hike downcanyon. In a few minutes, the logging road approach joins the canyon, and the second big drop becomes apparent.

    R2: Rappel 90 feet (30m) off a block or tree. Be careful of loose rock, and of the sharp, unstable talus at the bottom of the rappel.

    Continue hiking downcanyon. The main narrows section is soon reached.


    Hmmm. I dimly recall we walked around that and the second dry fall, and, rapped in when there was a canyon.

    Shane's beta:

    Soon the ATV track is stopped by a 100-foot dryfall. This is bypassed on the west (left) side. Continue hiking down canyon and you will encounter a 75-foot dryfall, which can be rappelled or bypassed on the west (left) side. The bypass has some exposure.

    I'm all for avoiding erosion on nasty trails, but, these spots look bad for rappelling with all the loose rock. Perhaps a reconsideration of eliminating these rappels in the future in route descriptions will help prevent a few accidents?

    I'd rather see a better social trail (less erosion and nasty) as a viable alternative than these types of junky, loose dryfall non canyon type rappel locations.

    We did the walk around in April '02, Shane (which I wouldn't recall had I not had notes). Seem to recall Bees borrowing his wife's hat, and, you borrowing your wife's truck...

    IMHO, part of "gettin' some skills" is knowing when its safer to just walk around a junky rappel. Judgment call for sure. When folks have a hammer, they look for nails...

    Anyhoo, sad event. Heavy sigh...

    Be safe out there.

  18. #31
    To me it sounds like it had to be at the first big dryfall. That's the only drop that's close to 120 feet. There is a pretty well defined trail around it. I think most people bypass it because of the rock fall potential.

  19. #32
    Yup... we walked around the first two raps in 2002. Falling rocks and sketchy rappels didn't appeal to any of us.

    A picture of the first rappel/walk around appeared in one of the very first news reports, but I believe it was a stock photo and not the actual group that had issues.

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  20. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Aj84737 View Post
    To me it sounds like it had to be at the first big dryfall. That's the only drop that's close to 120 feet. There is a pretty well defined trail around it. I think most people bypass it because of the rock fall potential.
    If you go to the right, there is a 40' rap with a better start as well. That's the route I've always taken.

  21. #34
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdd View Post
    I'm saddened but not shocked that everyone is piling on to this poor women's partners for not providing a fireman's belay. I would think before you sling blame around, especially if friends of the victim start reading this. Unfortunately a fireman's belay is not the great panacea that a lot of canyoneers seem to think it is. To wit:

    1) Nowhere in any published accounts of this accident so far (at least that I have seen) is there mention that no fireman's belay was performed. Or, there may have been legitimate reasons for not having one in this location (such as loose rock).

    2) There are legitimate questions on the effectiveness of fireman's belays. For more reading, see this testing done by cavers.

    3) Very, very few canyoneers have received training on fireman's belays, or caught a simulated fall using a fireman's belay, because simulated falls are notoriously difficult to stage safely. I think many that would try this might be surprised to find that it isn't as easy to catch someone falling using a fireman's belay as they might think it is. There is a lot more involved than "just pull the rope tight". Things aren't so black and white.

    4) In my experience, most canyoneers don't know how to perform an adequate fireman's belay anyway. I can't count how many people I've seen giving these sorts of belays incorrectly. It's rare that I've seen it done right. Check out this photo, from a website of a Zion-based company offering canyoneering courses, which illustrates how most people give these belays. Note that she is making at least three technique mistakes that I can see, each of which inhibits her ability to perform an adequate fireman's belay. Any guesses?
    Valid point's, Mike.

    I used to teach a firemans/bottom belay as a "job".

    To do it right, you must have your arm raised in the air towards the rappeler.

    Constantly adjusting rope slack so that an arrest of a fall is immediate BUT allowing enough rope for the person on rappel to do their job as well.

    The goal is to arrest a fall as soon as it starts, not shortly thereafter.

    I'm just throwing this out to the bogley group and in no way relate it to the accident, I don't know what happened and won't speculate.

    Mikes picture is spot on for what I see as a common firemans belay.

    While it takes very fine adjustment's, you can lower a person on rappel with a firemans, the key is real time experience AND practice, prior to needing it in a "live" canyon situation.
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  23. #35
    ephemeral excursionist blueeyes's Avatar
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    First I would like to say that I am saddened by the death of this young women. We have no idea what took place that day, but know many lives have been drastically altered by her death. My condolences to the family.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdd View Post
    2) There are legitimate questions on the effectiveness of fireman's belays. For more reading, see this testing done by cavers.
    Thank you for sharing this article mdd. What I take away from this article is if the rappeler has their friction properly set it greatly increases the chances of the belayer being able to arrest a sudden fall when longer distances are involved.

    When we discuss belaying it may be considered that a bottom belay is an extension of your brake hand. Excluding all other factors a rappeller will always be able to brake or stop if they have enough friction rigged. And a bottom belayer will always be able to perform a bottom belay if there is enough friction in the system. If a rappeller can't stop or a bottom belayer can't stop them, then there is not enough friction in the system.
    An inexperienced canyoneer going last might not set her friction correctly for that long of a rappel. Even if they were belaying her... based on what I read in this article they would not be able to arrest the fall.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdd View Post
    4) In my experience, most canyoneers don't know how to perform an adequate fireman's belay anyway. I can't count how many people I've seen giving these sorts of belays incorrectly. It's rare that I've seen it done right. Check out this photo, from a website of a Zion-based company offering canyoneering courses, which illustrates how most people give these belays. Note that she is making at least three technique mistakes that I can see, each of which inhibits her ability to perform an adequate fireman's belay. Any guesses?
    I am new and learning. I will take a crack at this.

    1. She is not paying attention to the rappeller
    2. She is holding the rope palm up very easy for the rope to be ripped out of her hand.
    I was taught that you hold the rope palm down, arm extended up toward rappeller with rope kinda loosely wrapped around your arm. Similar to what Spencer is doing in photo below. (Be kind if incorrect we were learning that day. It was only his second canyon.)
    Name:  spencer belaying.jpg
Views: 571
Size:  104.9 KB

    3. The third reason I am struggling with but decided to go with slack in the rope. If he does fall she has to take up that slack before she can even think of arresting his fall.
    Chere'




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  25. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    Valid point's, Mike.

    I used to teach a firemans/bottom belay as a "job".

    To do it right, you must have your arm raised in the air towards the rappeler.

    Constantly adjusting rope slack so that an arrest of a fall is immediate BUT allowing enough rope for the person on rappel to do their job as well.

    The goal is to arrest a fall as soon as it starts, not shortly thereafter.

    I'm just throwing this out to the bogley group and in no way relate it to the accident, I don't know what happened and won't speculate.

    Mikes picture is spot on for what I see as a common firemans belay.

    While it takes very fine adjustment's, you can lower a person on rappel with a firemans, the key is real time experience AND practice, prior to needing it in a "live" canyon situation.
    I've always thought fireman belaying was simple and strait forward: if the person begins falling, put tension on the rope to stop them. When I do a fireman's belay, I always tie into my own belay device on my harness to manage slack, I stand a short distance from the wall, and watch carefully for signs that the rappeller is in trouble. I've never received formal training on bottom belaying, I just assumed it was as simple as I described. From the comments above it seems like there is more technique to it than that. Luckily I've never had to catch anyone on rappel. Coming from someone that is fairly new to the sport, I would really like to make sure I know how to do this correctly. What do you guys recommend?

  26. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by pikan View Post
    When I do a fireman's belay, I always tie into my own belay device on my harness to manage slack, I stand a short distance from the wall, and watch carefully for signs that the rappeller is in trouble. <snip> What do you guys recommend?
    I'm not sure I'd want to be into my own belay device...your brake hand isn't their brake hand. That time delay of having to shuck slack through your own device as they are plummetting may be difficult at best, and, not quick enough to get the slack out of the rope. You need to be able to be their brake hand right now.

    Best thing to do is go practise. Lower someone, so, you get a feel for having someone else on belay and lower. Climbers do this a ton, but, I suspect folks coming into canyoneering without a bunch of climbing experience, or, even top roping, haven't lowered people much. Maybe they don't know how to belay at all? Dunno.

    Then, I'd set up a rappel, maybe have a party of three. Belay from the top anchor with one person, as a safety back up, on a separate rope. Have the rappeller go live on belay. Have the bottom person first, take their weight so the rappeller can let go. Then, have the bottom person lower them. Next, have the rappeller let go without warning. Bottom person catch, then lower. All while carefully belayed from above for safety.

    I guess if folks don't have the skills, that, learning how to properly belay someone will benefit the canyoneering toolbox greatly.

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  28. #38
    Condolences to the family and friends of this young woman.
    As a newb I'm taking an awful lot away from this thread on proper fireman belay techniques. The book On Rope has a diagram of a bottom belay that recommends having one arm up towards the rappeller, the rope then goes behind the belay person and into their other hand. Always maintaining a sturdy grip on the rope with both hands. I like the palms down tip by blueeyes.

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  30. #39
    I have arrested falls on both of the last 2 rappels of Heaps Canyon. Both were the same person. "Curt was 5'11" tall and weighed 310-320lbs. On the second to last rappel I had the ends of the rope tied directly to the anchor. He started to lose control about 15M from the perch. I was able to slow him down and stop him about 5M from the anchors. On the last rappel he lost control about 40M from the bottom. The belay required that I jump off a rock aprox. 2M downhill to stretch enough slack from the line to become tensioned enough to stop him aprox 20M from the ground. Short rappels with minimal rope in the system are much, much easier to arrest a boggle. My condolences also to the family and friends.

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  32. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by blueeyes View Post


    Thank you for sharing this article mdd. What I take away from this article is if the rappeler has their friction properly set it greatly increases the chances of the belayer being able to arrest a sudden fall when longer distances are involved.
    Excellent, and very important point. Thank you.

    That was my take away as well, as I was initially very concerned when I read this article.

    If the rappeler does not have adequate friction set to begin with, it may be much harder (or impossible) to arrest with a bottom belay.

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