Orderville...top down hike

[Byron]

So my buddy Ross, who I had hiked with through the Narrows a couple days earlier, had a permit for the Orderville top down hike. He bailed out, concerned about the weather, so I did it myself.

I had been through most of that canyon in the past...as an exit from Eaglestead and Birch. So basically, I'd already seen it. But hell, I'd already planned it for the day so I just went for it.

So here's the deal...I would NOT BOTHER to pay for a shuttle or even drive a car up there for it. The reason is that the "upper part" of Orderville is a dud. A road walk to a cow pasture then the descent into the canyon which is muddy and not very interesting at all. It doesn't get nice until two hours into the hike, then you'll have about one hour of hiking to yourself until you run into all the people coming up from the river. I did the whole thing in 4 hours.

There were 3 spots that good climbers (like me) can downclimb without a rope. I brought a rope but never used it. A few pools to wade through. Some nice narrows just above the first downclimb (the one with the giant chockstone).

I would recommend just coming up from the river. Bring a short rope (40') to perhaps lasso the top of the upclimb logs to proceed upcanyon and just do it that way. Go up until there is no more water flowing, and then turn back. Above the flowing water, it gets boring and just stays that way.

Start early and it'll take up most of the day...nice and casual.

Here's some pics. The third one is the first obstacle that you encounter when going downcanyon. You climb or rap off the log on the right side. Bear in mind however, that big floods can change things in regards to the obstacles going upstream...without the logs, they would be impossible.

[Byron]

Here's a serious problem once you get to the part where the tourist can easily reach...it's a bummer to have to dodge turds as you travel through here. There were quite a few of these. Don't get the water in your mouth, eh?

The sad part is that this person could have easily climbed up a talus slope to the left, up high from the water and left it there instead. I understand that when you gotta duke, ya gotta duke...but for cryin' out loud, right next to the creek and in the path? That's just pathetic.

Just past the mouth of Oderville, I passed a ranger going upstream. I wonder if they should go up there with garbage bags and pooper scoopers? I would if I worked there. Pretty gross but it would help.

[Iceaxe]

I like the Orderville top down route for hikers..... But for tech canyoneers it's nice to know that Englestead enters right where Orderville gets good. If I was with a group of tech canyoneers I'd just enter at Englestead.

[TommyBoy]

The sad part is that this person could have easily climbed up a talus slope to the left, up high from the water and left it there instead. I understand that when you gotta duke, ya gotta duke...but for cryin' out loud, right next to the creek and in the path? That's just pathetic.

While this is true, the hike into here should only take about an hour if I remember, If its to the point that you cant hold it a second longer, you shoulda been feeling it at the TH and taken measures there.

[Iceaxe]

My oldest daughter spent one summer as a Jr. Ranger at Timpanogos Cave. The tour through the cave takes about 45 minutes, Maybe 60 minutes restroom to restroom. She said one of her main jobs was guiding folks out of the cave that couldn't hold it any longer. She also has lots of stories about catching people trying to shit and pee in the cave, and this is on a frickin' ranger guided tour. She said someone was always attempting to step around a corner or lag behind to relieve themselves.

[Byron]

While this is true, the hike into here should only take about an hour if I remember, If its to the point that you cant hold it a second longer, you shoulda been feeling it at the TH and taken measures there.

Yeah, it's easy for people like us...I've got it down like clockwork when I'm away from home. Within a half hour of the first cup of coffee in the morning, bam, done.

Most of the pilgrims have no training in that regard whatsoever. That's why if I were the manager of that park, I'd try to send a ranger up there everyday, or close to it, not only to check on things but to haul out the dookie and ass wipe.

I mean, they brought in the toilet paper, right? Why not bring something to crap in, too? I saw a lot of this recently in Coyote Gulch as well. It's a nasty bummer but whadya gonna do?

[2pter]

It's a nasty bummer but whadya gonna do?

Mandatory dose of Immodium at the Sinawava trailhead?

Seriously though, has anyone ever taken anti-diarrheals as a way to avoid pooing in a bag?

[Bo_Beck]

I would recommend just coming up from the river. Bring a short rope (40') to perhaps lasso the top of the upclimb logs to proceed upcanyon and just do it that way. Go up until there is no more water flowing, and then turn back. Above the flowing water, it gets boring and just stays that way.

Travel upstream into Orderville Canyon or beyond Big Spring is prohibited. It is 2.5 miles upstream from Orderville to Big Spring, making the roundtrip hike up to Big Spring and back to the shuttle stop 10 miles. No permit is required for this day hike. Group size limits (12 people per group) do apply beyond the junction with Orderville Canyon. Please remember to use the restroom at the Temple of Sinawava before starting your hike; there are none in The Narrows.

[Slot Machine]

Mandatory dose of Immodium at the Sinawava trailhead?

Seriously though, has anyone ever taken anti-diarrheals as a way to avoid pooing in a bag?

Yes, this has been done. Yes, you can get a bowel obstruction from doing this, then end up in the hospital. Imodium is not a recreational drug, use as directed.

A high fiber dinner, then a cup o' joe in the morning helps me drop all the kids off at the pool before I hike.

It's a mandatory part of the canyoneering routine, IMO.

[Absolute Gravity]

A high fiber dinner, then a cup o' joe in the morning helps me drop all the kids off at the pool before I hike.

One look at Sandthrax will get your bowels moving.

Ram:
Being the owner of one of the world’s most fear–based, responsive digestive tracts, I expect to be running off to smear on the hill side, but this fear is a little more than the usual.

Love that story. Probably read it a dozen times before doing Sandthrax.

Looks like you had a great week Byron. Wish I could have been down in Zion that week. Would have liked to do a canyon and get a beer with you. Missed out on Kolob with Bob and Tyler, and Subway with Steve (recently assimilated into the canyoneering Borg) too.

Avert your eyes while I pout .

[Iceaxe]

Nothing will get you pooping faster then a good shot of adrenaline.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[ratagonia]

Travel upstream into Orderville Canyon or beyond Big Spring is prohibited. It is 2.5 miles upstream from Orderville to Big Spring, making the roundtrip hike up to Big Spring and back to the shuttle stop 10 miles. No permit is required for this day hike. Group size limits (12 people per group) do apply beyond the junction with Orderville Canyon. Please remember to use the restroom at the Temple of Sinawava before starting your hike; there are none in The Narrows.

to clarify:

Travel UP Orderville is allowed without a permit as far as Veiled Falls (the waterfall with the moki steps on the right side). Past there a permit is required.

Enforcement varies widely.

Tom

[Byron]

Looks like you had a great week Byron. Wish I could have been down in Zion that week. Would have liked to do a canyon and get a beer with you. Missed out on Kolob with Bob and Tyler, and Subway with Steve (recently assimilated into the canyoneering Borg) too.

Avert your eyes while I pout .

It's all good...sometime later, eh? All those canyons aren't going anywhere. Yeah, I had a wonderful time...I actually did a bunch of things, but didn't bring my camera for most of them. I did take this one shot in Echo. I almost didn't bring the wetsuit, but GLAD I did!!!

[Byron]

BTW Tom...those ropes you make are awesome. I picked up the last 120' CF at ZAC. Very impressive...and PERFECT for Mystery Canyon!

[oldno7]

to clarify:

Travel UP Orderville is allowed without a permit as far as Veiled Falls (the waterfall with the moki steps on the right side). Past there a permit is required.

Enforcement varies widely.

Tom

There used to be a small plaque glued to the rock, close to these steps, saying this.

I'm glad the plaque is gone but it does suck coming down Orderville and running into the "stick people", climbing as far up as the guillotine.

Now with the stacked logs there, they can go up as far as they want.( ya--theres rules but these "stick people" don't read em, or care about em.

[Bo_Beck]

to clarify:
Enforcement varies widely.
Tom

As do ethics.

[Scott Card]

Trip report, permits, poop, and ethics. The only thing this thread lacks to be all inclusive is a bolt war.

[canyonguru]

When i did orderville last week with the scouts there were probably 40 peple past those falls tom was talking about. They were using a log to climb up and out of the falls. It was pretty lame, as soon as we saw people it kinda ruined it for us. we have done orderville before but i have never seen so many people past the falls. The canyon i think is awesome right as walker comes in from RDC.

Just curious never have done Engelstead before. Where is it, i kept looking for it and i saw several posable canyons coming in on the LDC but couldn't tell. anyone have a picture of it at the confluence of orderville.

Walker looks pretty cool might have to try it someday.

[Byron]

As do ethics.

Ethics Shmethics...this is what it looks like when you say F the rules and blow past the invisible red line.

[Byron]

Just curious never have done Engelstead before. Where is it, i kept looking for it and i saw several posable canyons coming in on the LDC but couldn't tell. anyone have a picture of it at the confluence of orderville.

Walker looks pretty cool might have to try it someday.

Eaglestead is AWESOME...especially the big first rap. You also get the juicy bit of Orderville on the way out.

I have a picture of the confluence, but it's on film and I'm too lazy to screw with the printer right now. It comes in about 10 minutes below the Guillotine, AKA the giant chokestone.