Pine Creek 8-6-2013 and new anchor

[ratagonia]

Descended Pine Creek yesterday with Becca from Australia. Recent floods had the canyon full of murky water with a slight aroma of pine and decay, with aftertones of juniper and poo. At this point, the smell is not too bad but it will get worse. Completely full, and the water is not all that cold, but cold enough. A party ahead of us had no wet suits, and said it was "cold".

I put in two bolts for a new anchor at the last rappel, on the downcanyon face of the big chockstone boulder. It drops the rappeller into the upper chamber. The downclimb out of the upper chamber is intimidating, but with the backpack off, sashaying into the crack on the left and down is very straightforward.

The "new" rappel is not especially easier. The point is to provide a second avenue for descent at an often-congested point. And the chamber is really cool.

Tom

[jman]

Hmm, weren't there bolts in that general area already or were those ones chopped?

Either way - hopefully folks will use it and make it less congested there. Thanks tom

[Brian in SLC]

I put in two bolts for a new anchor at the last rappel, on the downcanyon face of the big chockstone boulder. It drops the rappeller into the upper chamber.

Thanks, sir-bolts-alot.

What hardware did you place? Are the cool kids still using 1/2" Powerbolts in stainless? Slling or chain? Rap rings/rapides?

Any photo's of said anchor?

[ratagonia]

Thanks, sir-bolts-alot.

What hardware did you place? Are the cool kids still using 1/2" Powerbolts in stainless? Slling or chain? Rap rings/rapides?

Any photo's of said anchor?

Two 1/2" x 3-3/4" expansion bolts. One Powers, one a different brand that Jonathan gave me. One Petzl hanger, one Fixe hanger. 6mm rapides on the hangers. 1" tubular black x 8 feet tied on, with an 8mm rapide on the end. Checkmark formation, standard 'cordalette-style tie-off'.

I don't think going to stainless adds any utility in the dry environment of Zion. This placement in particular is out of the waterflow except in the super-largest floods. The rock was pretty soft, which also means it should drain well.

I did not bring a camera, so no pics of the anchor.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Hmm, weren't there bolts in that general area already or were those ones chopped?

Perhaps you will have to go see.

Tom

[canyonguru]

Tom Good job i did see that anchor this last thursday. It worked out great because as we were sending down our boys there was a group of two guys that used your bolts. I heard them drop their rops but couldn't see them from the original anchor point. Once on rappel and in free air i could see the bolt position. looks like a really cool rap. It did look a little dicy so if anyone does it make sure you use a teather because it is a lot of free air between that rock and the ground.

Pine creek didn't smell two bad at all. but there was around 5 swims i think the first one being much longer than i remember.

[xxnitsuaxx]

Tom - just used your new anchor today. I think that the new rappel is much more friendly for beginners than the old one. They get all the thrill of the free-hanging rap but the transition from vertical to overhung is much more gradual and easier to manage. Thanks!

[ratagonia]

Tom - just used your new anchor today. I think that the new rappel is much more friendly for beginners than the old one. They get all the thrill of the free-hanging rap but the transition from vertical to overhung is much more gradual and easier to manage. Thanks!

Still quite an airy aerie that it starts from, could be hard on the beginners.

Tom

[Taylor]

Laura and I used the new anchor yesterday. Liked everything about it. After waiting for slower groups for most of the canyon, it was nice to have that option as yet another group was working on the last rap when we arrived there. We had never been in the upper chamber-very cool. Our ropes were just long enough to drop us into the lower pool after checking out the chamber. Side note: the backcountry desk is bugged about it. I say well done.

[Kuya]

Laura and I used the new anchor yesterday. Liked everything about it. After waiting for slower groups for most of the canyon, it was nice to have that option as yet another group was working on the last rap when we arrived there. We had never been in the upper chamber-very cool. Our ropes were just long enough to drop us into the lower pool after checking out the chamber. Side note: the backcountry desk is bugged about it. I say well done.

We too saw that anchor, but didn't use it. I like the idea of it being there though.

I have to say, it was really nice to meet you @Taylor, and Laura! Thanks for taking the time to chat, it is always fun to meet other members of the canyoneering community while I am out and about.

[Canyonater]

Side note: the backcountry desk is bugged about it. I say well done.

Why would they be bugged? I assume permission was given for Tom to add bolts to this location Or are we allowed to just add bolts whenever we please?

[hank moon]

Our ropes were just long enough to drop us into the lower pool after checking out the chamber.

It would be great if the community downclimbs the exit from the upper chamber to reduce the formation of new rope grooves. The D/C looks iffy, but is very solid if the climber stays wedged in the groove on the left side. It's inevitable that some will want to rappel this... just trying to get the word out that it's not necessary. Thanks

hank

[ratagonia]

It would be great if the community downclimbs the exit from the upper chamber to reduce the formation of new rope grooves. The D/C looks iffy, but is very solid if the climber stays wedged in the groove on the left side. It's inevitable that some will want to rappel this... just trying to get the word out that it's not necessary. Thanks

hank

It is helpful to do the downclimb without a pack on. Yes, looks scary, turns out to not be.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Why would they be bugged? I assume permission was given for Tom to add bolts to this location Or are we allowed to just add bolts whenever we please?

It is not the job of the Park to approve or disapprove of the public's anchor decisions.

It is the job of the Park to discourage placement of anchors that are dangerous and not useful.

You are allowed to add bolts whenever you please, but please publish when you do so, so I can go and remove them.

Tom

[xxnitsuaxx]

We threw a webbing chock in the crack for everyone but the last guy. Worked great.

[Canyonater]

It is not the job of the Park to approve or disapprove of the public's anchor decisions.

It is the job of the Park to discourage placement of anchors that are dangerous and not useful.

You are allowed to add bolts whenever you please, but please publish when you do so, so I can go and remove them.

Tom

I wonder how they have the power to approve or disapprove the amount of people visiting routes on their public lands

[ratagonia]

I wonder how they have the power to approve or disapprove the amount of people visiting routes on their public lands

Allow me to be more technical.

The NPS manages the Park using management plans that are developed using a public process. How much input from the public influences the result is a political discussion, beyond the scope of this thread.

http://www.nps.gov/zion/parkmgmt/index.htm

In the Backcountry (Wilderness) Management program, they chose to not ban or regulate bolts, but they do choose to discourage bolting. Use of power drills is prohibited.

"I wonder how they have the power..."

Congress gave them the authority to manage the National Park. They have chosen to regulate usage of the slot canyon environment, as indicated in the Wilderness Management Plan.

Sorry to disrupt your sense of wonder...

Tom

[Canyonater]

Allow me to be more technical.

The NPS manages the Park using management plans that are developed using a public process. How much input from the public influences the result is a political discussion, beyond the scope of this thread.

http://www.nps.gov/zion/parkmgmt/index.htm

In the Backcountry (Wilderness) Management program, they chose to not ban or regulate bolts, but they do choose to discourage bolting. Use of power drills is prohibited.

"I wonder how they have the power..."

Congress gave them the authority to manage the National Park. They have chosen to regulate usage of the slot canyon environment, as indicated in the Wilderness Management Plan.

Sorry to disrupt your sense of wonder...

Tom

That's good info....