Coyote Buttes North and South - Doable in a Day?

[Glenn]

Hi all,
I lucked out and got a lottery slot for Coyote Buttes North (The Wave) on my first try (this November, around Thanksgiving). There are Coyote Buttes South slots still available for the same day.

Is it plausible to do both The Wave and White Pocket in a day? I'd love to stretch them out over two days, and that may still be possible, but am curious if anyone else has done it.

Only about ten hours of sunlight, so this might be pushing it. If not, no big deal; I'm thrilled to be heading to CBN at all.

Thanks,
Glenn

[Glenn]

a follow-up question:

Any recommended guides for The Wave?

I'm comfortable with that area (having just hiked Wire Pass, Buckskin, and Edmaiers Secret in May) and have a great GPS and topos of the area. However, my hiking partner might have a better time if we had a guide who can get us out and back without too much wandering. Also, the recent deaths out there have scared her a bit and an extra, experienced hiker would make her visit much more enjoyable.

[JTMiller]

Glenn,

I have been into Coyote Buttes North 3 times and Coyote Buttes South once. Haven't made it over to White Pocket yet. Anyway, there is more to see in CBN than just The Wave. Hike up above The Wave to Second Wave and up into the head of Sand Cove. There are a lot of interesting rock formations up on the hill. Top Rock Arch is interesting too. One of the times we went in to CBN we took a hike out to the teepees to the east of Top Rock and found some cool formations there also. My recommendation is to spend the whole day at CBN, but that's just me. Who knows how long it might be before you are able to get another permit. CBS is a fun hike but save it for another day. Permits are easy to get there.

If you've been into Wire Pass and pay attention to the map and photos the BLM show you, you shouldn't have any problem navigating to The Wave - especially with a GPS. Track you route and mark a few waypoints as you hike in. to help with the reverse route. Just beyond the entry to Wire Pass you head east for a ways and cross a wash. Climb up out of the wash and start climbing up the slick rock slope. Once you get to the top of the slickrock above the wash the route curves around to the south on a bench on the slickrock hill. There are hoodoos that serve as landmarks for the route - BLM will show you pictures of the hoodoos. Keep hiking south and look for a notch in the top of the rock rock on the opposite side of Sand Wash. Hike to the notch and you'll be at The Wave. When we went there were tracks all over the place in the sand. Didn't have any problems at all finding it. Given the recent deaths, I'm guessing the BLM is giving a lot more information now. They may even give you the coordinates for The Wave now. Who knows - it's been a few years since my last trip. Anyway, congratulations on drawing a permit. Not an easy thing to do anymore. Have fun and get off route and explore.

[Glenn]

JT, thanks for the additional information and suggestions. I think you're right about spending as much time in CBN as possible, given how rare the opportunity is. You convinced me.

I'd read Bo & Tanya's descriptions of the area - as well as their beta - and would like to see the dinosaur tracks and scramble up to Top Arch and Melody Arch also. Don't think my fellow hiking partner will be interested in any Class 3 scrambling, but we'll see.

[powderglut]

Doing Coyote Buttes South and White Pocket the same day is possible. I'd probably bring sleeping bags and spend the night at WP. Evening and morning colors. Besides, after you get to WP after spending the day at SCBs, you'll want more time to explore. Both places are gems.
The Wave is best spent as an all day affair. With Gps you should have no problem returning the same way you came in. Mark a few waypoints on your way in. Have fun.

[Glenn]

I'm starting to narrow down the trip plans. White Pocket is out, due to the time and deep sand. I've driven in sandy conditions in a rental before (Elephant Cove ATV trails) but every description of the drive to WP has me a little nervous. And I don't want to rent a second 4WD just to do it.

What I'm thinking now - and your input would be valuable - is this: Day 1, Wire Pass to CBN. Spend the day out there, then hike to BLM land east of the teepees and camp overnight. Next morning, hike to CBS (permitted, of course) and Cottonwood Cove. Then return back to Wire Pass, skirting the CBN area so I won't get in trouble.

I'd consider camping at State Line, but that seems out-of-the-way and a time-killer.

I'll have to carry lots more water, but it's starting to seem like a possibility.

[Glenn]

And the plans continue to change; now it's looking like this:

Day 1 - Hike out to the BLM east of the Teepees (about 4 miles from Wire Pass). Set up camp and then tour CB South/Cottonwood Cove (got passes). Camp overnight.
Day 2 - Tour CB North/The Wave. Pack out. Maybe camp at State Line.

Had a practice backpacking weekend over Labor Day to work out my water needs...carried 10 liters with me for two days/nights. Used 15 liters (potable water was available), but it was HOT. I think I could carry another 2-3 liters without much trouble, but need to think about cool weather gear also.

At least open fires are allowed in the BLM area, assuming I can find firewood.

Oh, and I'll be going solo now. Unless I find a last-minute hiking buddy.

[powderglut]

Last time at the Wave, I saw a water source heading north thru the small canyon at Sand Cove. (North CB) It was a stream flow for a short ways. This was in late October, so I'm thinking it may be constant. Anyone verify that?
This could be taking a chance, (maybe not so good at this time of year) but... it seems a lot of folks accessing both Buttes, camp at Stateline. Might be worth asking the campers where they are going. Maybe you could get a ride to Cottonwood Cove and set up just outside the boundary for your next day trip. You could then set up your last camp closer to N Coyote for the Wave day. A lot less hiking and more seeing. Even if folks are heading to White Pocket would put you pretty close to the Cottonwood Cove at the ranch up top.
Just a thought. A ride in to S Coyote would save you a lot of sand hiking.

[piper01]

Oh, and I'll be going solo now. Unless I find a last-minute hiking buddy.

What dates are you going? I'm planning a solo trip to the Grand Staircase/Escalante/Paria region for late November, tentatively Nov 22-27. I'd feel safer having company for some hikes; even though I'm trying not to stray too far from the most "popular" destinations, many of them are still pretty remote. I'm planning on car camping if the weather allows- no backpacking for me.

Have you already looked into a guide? I have a CBS permit for Nov 25; for $175 I was able to add myself to a group that the Paria Outfitters were already booked to take out on that day. I think their quote was $250 for a solo trip. The price is well worth it in my opinion to save myself the worry of getting stuck in the sand.

[Glenn]

@powderglut: I'm not sure I'd want to chance on there being a reliable water source. Even if it exists, I wouldn't be able to get to it until my second day out there (since my first day will be @CBSouth).

Your idea of possibly hooking up with other travelers driving to the Cottonwood Cove area is good at first glimpse. But I suspect the logistics of *finding* a CBSouth-er in advance and arranging for them to get me at Wire Pass on their way down would be tough. It would save me almost four miles of hiking, though.

@piper01: Hey fellow H-towner! I'll be down there almost exact same dates as you - Nov. 22-30. Hitting CBSouth on 11/25; CBNorth on 11/26. Freaky coincidence, man.

I did speak with several guides when I thought my wife would be going to The Wave with me (although P.O. never replied to my email requests.. hmm). But now that I'm solo, I really don't want to use a guide. I don't mind getting a little lost, just didn't want my wife to deal with that.

PM me if you want to talk further and compare notes. I visited Wire Pass/Buckskin/Edmaiers Secret back in May and it was awesome.

[kaniukr]

Hi Glenn, Obviously people have got lost at The Wave, but I'm pretty sure you'd be fine with a compass and topo and keeping your eyes open on the way out as to where you'll be going back. We headed on to the teepees which we enjoyed and it won't be too hot for you. As the Wave permits get snapped up you're almost certain to see others too. It was some years ago, but if you pop into the Paria Ranger Station they had photos of landmarks to head for on the route.
I also did Coyote Butte South with Steve Dodson of Paria Outfitters because of the sand. But I think his tour does CBS in the morning and Whitepockets in the afternoon, but we left the Whitepockets as we'd done it before. Only drawback if your photographers is that you won't be there at sunrise or sunset.

[JFstego]

Hi there,

I second the opinion of others in this thread to reserve an entire day for CBN. There is too much to see in one day. If you have a GPS, I highly recommend downloading the tracks and waypoints from www.thewave.info. I would suggest sunrise at Fatali's Boneyard, the Wave mid-day, Top Rock, and the second Wave and Sand Cove for the sunset. The second Wave at the sunset is breathtaking.

Regarding the CBS, the permits are easy to get and usually you can get permits even for the same day. It is a large region to explore, however, if you plan to see both the Cottonwood Tee Pees and the Paw Hole.

I would strongly recommend to drive to save on hiking long distances and having to carry all that water. There is a rental in Kanab -- you can get a Jeep Cherokee with low range, an air compressor, and a shovel (which you will not need) for $120/day ($100/day if you rent for two days).

http://www.xpressrentalcarofkanab.com/index.cfm

Regarding the sand, I would not worry about it too much, especially if it rained recently. I have driven to the Paw Hole from Lone Tree in 2WD many times. Beyond the Paw Hole, however, you absolutely need a 4WD vehicle as there is a hill with a rather deep sand. It is MUCH easier to reach the Cottonwood Tee Pees TH via the south route (again, check www.thewave.info for the maps and tracks). The WP is also not as bad as some describe if you approach it from the South. I have seen a RAV4, CRV, and even a Subaru Forester on the parking lot at the WP. I am waiting to see a Camry there next time (just joking). I always rent a Wrangler to explore the region but often drive it in 2WD only. The high clearance is sufficient. Driving through deep sand requires speed. If I was to go there in a RAV4 or Ford Edge, I would deflate the tires to 25psi (still drivable on the pavement) and you should not have a problem whatsoever. Avoid driving the stretch between Paw Hole and WP through Poverty Flats. That is pretty rough. Although I absolutely love driving it in a Wrangler -- lots of FUN :)

Last but not least, I personally would pick the WP over CBS. The WP is such an amazing place. It offers so many photo opportunities, a real jewel. But if you have just two days, you need to make a choice, I understand. Wherever you decide to go, the Paria wilderness is an amazing place to be. Make sure you have extra memory cards and spare batteries for your cameras to capture the greatest Earth on show as they say in Kanab. Good luck and write us about your experience.

Jessica

[JFstego]

One more good advice. On House Rock Valley Road, do not go faster than 25 mph or you risk a flat. This is coming from someone who had a flat tire on the southern end of the HRVR three times already. The rental companies put some cheapo tires on their cars. The HRVR is mostly clay based in the north and rock/gravel in the south. The gravel looks pretty innocent and it is tempting to go faster only to hear that "clink" and see the flat warning light on the dashboard. If you go from the south, the closest place to fix a flat or reinflate is Jacob Lake.

Jessica

[Glenn]

Thanks for the tips, Jessica. I already had contact XPress Rent-a-Car about possibly getting a Jeep when I thought that White Pocket was in the plans, but now that I'm only doing Coyote Buttes North and South, I don't think I'll need one. I'll probably go with a regular rental 4WD like I did this past May. And yes, I'll keep it slow on HRVR; I've only been on the northern section, but I won't be in any hurry.

I just hope this shutdown ends so I can get my permits...still haven't arrived, which means they probably weren't mailed before October 1. Sheesh.

[Glenn]

Late update: finally got my permits about a week after the shutdown ended (whew!) and have a hiking partner (Don Hall, photographer, see below) joining me. We're driving to Cottonwood Cove the day before (via Lone Tree) and will camp there two nights - visiting CB South the first day, then CB North the second day (approaching from southeast). Don't have to worry about carrying all that water on my back now!

QUESTION: Assuming dry backroad conditions, how tricky would it be driving out on these BLM roads after sunset? I have the roads loaded in my GPS (and will track on the drive in) and it seems like once you pass Paw Hole, it's all downhill from there.

Thanks,
-Glenn

Don Hall's websites:
http://www.lightfantasticphotography.com
http://www.onewithbeauty.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nwphotoguy/

[Glenn]

Any locals have an idea what the road conditions are for Highway 89A around Jacob's Lake?

The BLM said that House Rock Road is impassable all through. That will wipe out Coyote Buttes South tomorrow, but we're hoping that maybe we can take Hwy 89A to the southern House Rock Road access.

We'll check with the BLM again and report here, but in case anyone has information, we'd appreciate it.

-Glenn