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Thread: Starting to regret going tubeless...

  1. #1

    Starting to regret going tubeless...

    I'm getting really tired of the routine it takes to keep my tires trail ready. Every couple months i have to put new Stan's Sealant in, every ride I have to top off the pressure on my tries, have had to replace the rim tape a couple times now because of leaks, and have had multiple flats on the trail.
    Been reminiscing a lot lately of the days when I had tires with heavy duty tubes and slime. I could go months without having to top off the pressure, and could go years (seriously) without a flat. Tubed tires are sounding really good to me again!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

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  3. #2
    Every time I go through the effort to get set up tubeless, I always end up with a tube in there by the end of the season. It's great when it works, but I don't bet the farm on it. I've pinch flatted through tubeless tires before. It's not fail safe. I always carry a spare tube and patch kit.

  4. #3
    The extra thick tubes with slime and schrader valves have been serving me well. I even drilled out my presta valved rims so I can keep it old skool.

  5. #4
    I use slime in my pesta valve tubes. It has served me well for a long time.

    Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

  6. #5
    Schrader with tube liners (Mr. Tuffys) for me.


  7. #6
    The guys at the shop said I'd absolutely love the lightweight feel of a tubeless setup. Can't really say I notice a difference. Anybody else noticed any difference?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

  8. #7
    The problem when anybody raves about something being lighter, you pack a stick of beef jerky in your pack and you've cancelled out a couple hundred dollar lightweight part on your bike.

    It's all just mental. Some riders keep a mental tally of all the grams they're saving and it gives them more confidence. These are the kind of extreme 100 lb skinny guys that brag about how easy it is to ascend a mountain because their spandex weighs just a few grams.

    I mean you eat a burrito that day and it's like the olympic training dream has ended.

    Rather than the pounds and grams something weighs, you'll be much happier in the long run measuring things by strength and endurance. The heavier, more durable stuff is usually less expensive. Not cool, but better for you

  9. #8
    I agree with Beech.. if you are not at 100% optimal weight then shaving some oz off your bike doesn't do you a lot of good, especially if you keep flatting out.. shave a pound off your butt and put tubes back in you won't notice a difference :)
    Tacoma Said - If Scott he asks you to go on a hike, ask careful questions like "Is it going to be on a trail?" "What are the chances it will kill me?" etc. Maybe "Will there be sack-biting ants along the way?"

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ahansen60 View Post
    I'm getting really tired of the routine it takes to keep my tires trail ready. Every couple months i have to put new Stan's Sealant in, every ride I have to top off the pressure on my tries, have had to replace the rim tape a couple times now because of leaks, and have had multiple flats on the trail.
    Been reminiscing a lot lately of the days when I had tires with heavy duty tubes and slime. I could go months without having to top off the pressure, and could go years (seriously) without a flat. Tubed tires are sounding really good to me again!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
    I have had the exact opposite experience over the last 4 years since I have gone tubeless. In that span I have only one flat and it was on a very old tire where the bead actually separated from the casing. My friends have had similar experiences and we will never go back to tubes. Give us more information on your exact setup. Type of rims, tires, conversion method, etc. Maybe that way we can help diagnose the problem.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ahansen60 View Post
    The guys at the shop said I'd absolutely love the lightweight feel of a tubeless setup. Can't really say I notice a difference. Anybody else noticed any difference?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    The problem when anybody raves about something being lighter, you pack a stick of beef jerky in your pack and you've cancelled out a couple hundred dollar lightweight part on your bike.

    It's all just mental. Some riders keep a mental tally of all the grams they're saving and it gives them more confidence. These are the kind of extreme 100 lb skinny guys that brag about how easy it is to ascend a mountain because their spandex weighs just a few grams.

    I mean you eat a burrito that day and it's like the olympic training dream has ended.

    Rather than the pounds and grams something weighs, you'll be much happier in the long run measuring things by strength and endurance. The heavier, more durable stuff is usually less expensive. Not cool, but better for you
    Quote Originally Posted by DOSS View Post
    I agree with Beech.. if you are not at 100% optimal weight then shaving some oz off your bike doesn't do you a lot of good, especially if you keep flatting out.. shave a pound off your butt and put tubes back in you won't notice a difference :)
    I agree that the weight difference is a complete non-issue. If you are running a true UST (Universal System for Tubeless) setup, then sealant isn't required. However, the rubber is thicker to make the tires airtight, thus, more weight. Plus, with no sealant there is no flat protection against a puncture.

    If you are running lightweight racing tires and set them up tubeless, there may be a very slight weight savings, but they are going to be so thin that they will be unreliable. Most tire manufacturers make a happy medium between those extremes. A tire that requires sealant to be run tubeless, but isn't super beefy like the true UST tires.

    Tubeless, for me, is not about weight savings but about ride quality and flat protection. With tubeless you can run much lower tire pressure and not worry nearly as much about getting pinch flats. Lower pressure is hugely beneficial in terms of ride quality and traction both uphill and downhill. With lower pressure, I have been able to climb loose steep pitches that I never could before because of the added traction. It also instills more downhill confidence through chunky rock sections. The flat protection is an added bonus. I just pulled off a bald rear tire last night and I counted 7 little booger spots where the sealant had done its job.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bootboy View Post
    Every time I go through the effort to get set up tubeless, I always end up with a tube in there by the end of the season. It's great when it works, but I don't bet the farm on it. I've pinch flatted through tubeless tires before. It's not fail safe. I always carry a spare tube and patch kit.
    Of course it's not fail safe. Nothing is. I always carry a spare tube and patch kit as well, but maybe that's just the boy scout in me. In my core group of 6 riders in Logan there have only been 3 flats this entire year. All of those flats were from the two guys who refuse to go tubeless.

  12. #11
    I’m totally with Neil on this one. I’m curious as to whether you are running a true UST or tubeless ready setup or ghetto? I had reoccurring issues with ghetto tubeless so that would make sense. Since switching to a true tubeless setup 3 years ago I have had ZERO flat issues. Unlike Neil, I never even carry a spare tube with me anymore unless I’m in Moab or somewhere really remote. Even after many trips to Moab / St. George, I still haven’t had a flat or blown tire. BTW, many tire / rim manufacturers are tagging their products as ‘Tubeless Ready’ instead of UST so they don’t have to pay Mavic a royalty for using the UST moniker. Heck, right now I’m running a weenie-weight Bontrager 29-1 Team tire up front and a slightly less weenie-weight Bontrager 29-2 Expert tire on the rear. Since May, and hundreds of miles, I have had no issues with either and neither one is marked as tubeless ready (I don’t think many 29” tires are anymore). I do run them with Stans. Yes, I refill a couple of times a summer but, with removable valve core stems and a Stans refill syringe, it takes what, 1 minute per tire? I don’t know about you but I can’t change out a tube in less than 1 minute. Yes, I also check the PSI before every ride. I usually have to pump 2-3 psi back in. Again, I don’t see the big deal in having to do this. It takes 30 seconds or so. The advantages for me far outweigh any disadvantages. I weigh 210lbs and run, with tubeless, 23psi in front and 25psi in back. With the lower psi I climb better, corner better and descend better, plus I have confidence knowing I’m not going to flat. I’m able to demo quite a few bikes and the ones setup with tubes feel sluggish to me. Now, after all that, ride whatever you’re comfortable with and worked for you. Tubeless has worked very well for me so I’ll stick with it.
    Are we there yet?

  13. Likes neilether liked this post
  14. #12
    I can definitely feel the difference between a lighter tire vs a heavier tire, and I can feel that a tubeless setup conforms to the ground a bit better, but the benefits aren't worth it to me. I run regular tubes, and I haven't had a flat on the mountain in 5 years. Stay on the trail, maintain adequate pressure, and you shouldn't have many flats. I don't get stickers on the mountains, it's the paved Jordan River Parkway style trails that kill my tires.

  15. Likes neilether liked this post
  16. #13
    Yeah if you can figure out the tubeless setup that works for you, go for it. But I would never go with a certain component because it weighs less. The traction at lower PSI is a benefit, and there are so many other factors to climbing the loose stuff too.

    I haven't changed my tube for a few years now, and I may have only had 1 flat in those years, riding every week when there's no snow.

    Sometimes on the chains, the higher priced XTR chain weighs less and is more expensive just because it has less material - but is weaker. It might be good for a race or two if you are totally fine tuned on your body weight, pack weight, and everything else on your bike. But if you skip the gym for a week and your cardio is just a bit off, that weight savings is offset. Plus, you end up with a chain that doesn't last as long now.

    Then again I'm a bit lazy when it comes to maintenance. I've been meaning to get a new chain for a year, I'm riding with a quick repair link with no spare, and I just can't get around to it. But every week we're riding 10+ miles and it's holding up just fine.

    Now now, don't mention how the old chain starts to wear down the gear teeth, I've been there before and had to replace a gear for $10. I'm not there yet

    I prefer the heavier tires with a bottle of slime split between both tubes. I feel more stable as I'm rounding the corners at higher speeds. But it's just personal preference. I like my Kona even though it's getting old, and the new XC bikes are lighter and sure go up the hill faster. But I prefer going downhill on my heavier bike.

    Plus, once everybody cruises up on their lighter bike, they all joke about taking mine on the downhill because it's less squirrelly

  17. #14
    I started off with a Shimano UST wheelset with UST tires. Bulletproof! I am now using Stan's rims. The reason for the switch is that with the Stan's rims it makes it very easy to use almost any tire. UST, tubeless ready, or even just a regular tire. They all work very well.

    I've never tried the ghetto setup, but a buddy swears by Gorilla Tape conversion and hasn't had any issues.

  18. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by tallsteve View Post
    I weigh 210lbs and run, with tubeless, 23psi in front and 25psi in back. With the lower psi I climb better, corner better and descend better, plus I have confidence knowing I’m not going to flat.
    I'm not nearly as tall as Steve, but must be quite a bit wider as I am also 210 lbs. I run big, high volume 2.4 tires front and rear on my bike. With the tubeless setup and high volume tires, I run just over ~23psi front and rear. Love it! Pre-tubeless I was running 2.1 tires on my bikes and I had to put at least 35-40 psi in them to prevent pinch flats. With that high pressure I felt like I was bouncing all over the place on the trails.

  19. Likes chromehead58 liked this post
  20. #16
    I have figured a couple things out that may have contributed to my frustrations. First of all, like neilether just mentioned, I learned that gorilla tape is much better than standard rim tape and have replaced both my rims with that. Second, I realized after doing the setup myself instead of having the shop do it, that they weren't putting the recommended amount of Stan's in it. Got the recommended amount in it now. So hopefully after those changes it should give me less headaches. Still think my old tubed setup was less maintenance though. :) Oh, and yes my setup is 100% UST.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

  21. #17
    I'll chime in that I'm on Neil and Steve's wagon. Since I went tubeless I've had one flat (Snow Basin, the rock capitol of the world!) on my old 26" Titus and since getting the Niner I have had zero on the trail. I run a real UST WTB tire up front and a tube style Small Block 8 on the back and I can run about 10 lbs. less air in the tires when they're tubeless. Much more comfortable and a little more traction going up and down and a whole lot less of the ping pong feeling bombing the downhills.

  22. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ahansen60 View Post
    .....Oh, and yes my setup is 100% UST.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
    Something doesn't quite add up here. A true UST rim doesn't have any spoke holes on the inside of the rim and thus, doesn't need any rim tape. What brand of rims are you using? Which tires?

  23. #19
    So I had some awesome validation on this topic last night. I got a new rear tire and tried to mount it on the rim Sunday evening. I don't have an air compressor and I could not for the life of me get the beads to seat tubeless with my floor pump. So, I threw a tube in and left it at 55psi to loosen up the new tire. I wasn't planning on riding until later in the week so I just left it overnight. I got a call yesterday evening to go for a night ride. I didn't have time to take out the tube and attempt to seat it, so I just rode with the tube in there. I dropped the pressure to 40psi and went. We got to the top of the climb and I had been feeling the back end pinball around a bit on the climb, so I decided to let a few puffs of air out of the tire for the descent. I'm pretty sure you know where this story is going. I got within a mile of the car when I felt the back end squirming around. Sure 'nuff. FLAT TIRE!

    Dear Tubes,

    I hate you.

    love,

    -Neil-

  24. #20
    The 'pinball-ing', 'pogo-ing', bouncing off everything is something I surely don't miss. Lower psi equals less bounce as the tires stay in contact with the ground better which also equals more control downhill and greater pedaling efficiency uphill.
    Are we there yet?

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