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07-01-2013, 01:59 PM #1
Belaying Young Kids As They Rappel
once again looking for all your expert advice.
I am wanting to take my nephews rappelling and teach them to Rappel on their own but wondering what your opinions are on whats the best way to let them have full control but still belaying them from the top as a back up.
Thanks,
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07-01-2013 01:59 PM # ADS
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07-01-2013, 02:08 PM #2
???
What is the best way to belay them from the top?
Belay them from the top.
You've already specified what it is you plan to do, so what is your question?
Personally, I think it is better for them if a second adult belays from the bottom, rather than using a separate-rope top belay. Some kids are greatly aided by doing a tandem rappel first, so they get the idea, then progressing to (perhaps) being lowered, then rappelling on their own (with a bottom belay).
I guess the other way to look at the question is to think you are looking at directions on how to belay from the top. To me, elitist that I am, if you don't know how to do that, you should not be taking kids rappelling.
Tom
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07-01-2013, 02:09 PM #3
I use a top belay for kids when the rappel is big or newbie kids. I just leave some slack and constantly feed belay rope as they decend.
I tie (1) a fig-8 on a bight on the main rope and clip a biner to it, (2) tie Munter hitch with belay rope onto biner, (3) tie belay rope directly onto kids belay loop, (4) hook main rope onto rappel device. (5) keep a little slack on the line as they decend.
Photo is my 10 year old on the big rappel on Boltergeist.
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07-01-2013, 02:30 PM #4
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07-01-2013, 03:00 PM #5
My kids learned by first being lowered. Next they moved to a top belay and finally to a bottom belay. YMMV
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
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07-01-2013, 03:06 PM #6
When I was teaching my son to rappel I rigged two ropes a few feet apart, one for each of us, and then rapped down next to him while he was also being belayed from the bottom. Worked out great as I was able to see exactly what he was doing and offer encouragement or advice as we went down.
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07-01-2013, 03:26 PM #7
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07-01-2013, 06:43 PM #8
I guess I'd think having two separate ropes would be prudent. The kid's primary rappel line could be rigged with a contengency. Belay line would be separate, and, deployable if one needed to rappel down.
A tandem rappel would be cool. Rappel side by each. You could clip a tether into them in case they lost control.
I've always belayed from the top for absolute beginners. Nice to be able to talk them off the anchor and starting with good body and hand position.
Lowering first is a great idear. Get that body position dialed, as well as being comfy on a rope in a vertical environment.
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07-02-2013, 07:38 AM #9
Kids are all different. My 8 year old (at the time), on his first rap ever, put the rope in his ATC and descended by himself like he'd been doing it for years. Not the same with my other 2 boys...they were not at all comfortable with even being lowered despite reassurance and coaxing and we resorted to tandem rappelling (1 long (on adult) and 1 short (on kid) sling attached to same rappel devise), worked very well.
After a few tandem raps, my oldest became comfortable with rappelling by himself with the ATC set up with too much friction. Wasn't long until he trusted his equipment and abilities and now does fine. My youngest, after a few tandem raps, is very comfortable being lowered and enjoys it. Won't be long until he is rapping by himself.
Another technique that has worked very well for us when they start to rap on their own is to extend the rappel devise out 12 inches or so with a sling girth hitched to the belay loop. Awkward starts may require you to shorten the length though. This method has, so far, kept little fingers out of the ATC and they can more easily use both hands on the brake line if they want to.
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07-02-2013, 09:58 AM #10
Started with my kid last December. He was just turned 6. We did the tandem rope, clipped together and I controlled the tail of his rope. He backed off and slid down like he had done it forever.
After a few trips I would leave him stopped partway down, then finish my rappel and belay him from the bottom. Our starting point was about 35' high and not vertical with an easy back off.
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07-06-2013, 01:01 PM #11
I've seen this done before by a guiding service and was curious as to what all of you thought about using this idea for kids. hopefully there is enough info in the picture to make sense.
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07-06-2013, 01:21 PM #12
Lowering someone using a fireman belay is easy, and it's a method that every student should learn to trust.
The munter hitch setup is not necessary.
____
Edit: if you really want to do a top belay, that is a good way. (sorry, just read the rest of the thread)THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
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07-06-2013, 02:39 PM #13Another technique that has worked very well for us when they start to rap on their own is to extend the rappel devise out 12 inches or so with a sling girth hitched to the belay loop. Awkward starts may require you to shorten the length though. This method has, so far, kept little fingers out of the ATC and they can more easily use both hands on the brake line if they want to.
If your rap device is on your harness and you stick your brake hand out in front of you to stop a slip, you're falling.
I like this setup on slippery, low-angle rappels.
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07-06-2013, 07:13 PM #14
When they were really young, I tied them in to the rope and just lowered them. Later on, we moved to the bottom belay. Without any extra rope attached, as in a top belay, I feel that the fireman belay gives them the sense of control and doing it on their own, with the knowledge that they will be stopped from below if needed.
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow
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07-06-2013, 08:56 PM #15
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07-06-2013, 09:01 PM #16
Yes, this is pretty much the standard way of giving a top belay.
As you show, it is a good idea to physically separate the belay from the rappel line, the belay anchor from the rappel anchor - AND the belay clip-in point from the rappel device clip in point.
HOWEVER - you show the rope tied in to the belay loop, and this is WRONG. You can clip the belay rope to the belay loop with a carabiner; or you can tie the rope into the harness through the tie-in points. But you should NEVER TIE the rope to the belay loop.
Tom
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07-07-2013, 08:47 AM #17THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
TRIP REPORTS: TIGER | BOBCAT | OCELOT | LYNX | SABERTOOTH | CHEETAH | PORCUPINE | LEOPARD
DON'T BE A STRANGER, LEAVE A COMMENT AND/OR SUBSCRIBE.
WWW.AMAZINGSLOTS.BLOGSPOT.COM
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07-07-2013, 09:47 AM #18
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07-07-2013, 09:50 AM #19
That set up looks "ok"...but, I'm with Tom in that the rope should be tied into the proper place on the harness, and, not the belay loop. I'd also rig the munter hitch side with a sling shot belay instead since you have to actively feed the rope anyhow. Much less twisting, and, easier for the belay to control rather than on the anchor with a munter.
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07-07-2013, 10:56 PM #20
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