What's Wrong?

[Brian in SLC]

This anchor does not need a piece of webbing or rapid link. The rope can be placed around the dead tree, and it will pull just fine. Leaving webbing and a rapid link is litter, and unnecessary in this case.(unless, actually, it is not).

Maybe. Dead tree looks kinda scrappy, especially where a rope could roll down and get pinned in one of the loose pieces of bark/wood. If you can't pull the rope easily, that'd be reason enough to leave a sling.

[oldno7]

Yeah, I hear ya. I just don't consider that redundant enough to really be called redundant. At least not by my high standards...

I hear ya as well, just thought it might be interesting to discuss.

Food for thought to keep in the back of your mind for "someday"

[oldno7]

Scenario:

You arrive at this anchor and don't have the tools to help it out.

How should you safely get your group past it?

Your group is 5---ranging in weight from 155-260lbs

[Renatomic808]

Depends what the drop looks like? If that's all you got on a 200+ rap, I'd have the last person sit far back as a backup meat anchor. He/she goes down with the higher risk. If you can bypass it/downclimb... well i'd do that.

[Mountaineer]

Scenario:

You arrive at this anchor and don't have the tools to help it out.

How should you safely get your group past it?

Your group is 5---ranging in weight from 155-260lbs

Assuming no other anchor points.

Contingency anchor on the chain (or webbing loop through the hanger to avoid the chain if it is suspect given the apparent hanger failures), backing it up with meat at the contingency point/rigging (not at the hanger). Heaviest goes first (assuming everything else with the dynamics, location, environment, experience is equal). If it holds OK, last person goes down at a bit higher risk. Be ready below...

[Brian in SLC]

Scenario:

You arrive at this anchor and don't have the tools to help it out.

How should you safely get your group past it?

Your group is 5---ranging in weight from 155-260lbs

Can't tell from the photo, but, are both the aluminum anchors jacked?

If I could sneak a piece of webbing under the top anchor's hanger, and, shuffle it around so its on top of the bolt, but, still under the hanger, I'd use that to back up the single bolt.

The single bolt/chain/ring rig looks bomber to me. I'd inspect it and maybe bounce on it lightly to see if it was robust, then, send the biggest guy down first with whatever back up I could cluge off the hammered bolt/hangers.

I place those double hanger/chain/ring anchors all the time. They're nice.

[Absolute Gravity]

I'll go with what Renatomic808 says. That hangar doesn't look terribly scary to me. I am curious as to what is holding the fourth hangar (under the block) to the wall though.

[canyoncaver]

I assumed that the fourth hanger is attached to the ring, but blew out of the hole with the scratched arrow. So no longer attached to the wall.

[oldno7]

o.k.--little add on.

Drop is 80' in the direction the rope is currently hanging.

2-aluminum hangers are toast

hanger with chain, freely rotates on the bolt but bolt doesn't pull with finger pressure.

I think that covers everybody.

[Slot Machine]

I'll go with what Renatomic808 says. That hangar doesn't look terribly scary to me. I am curious as to what is holding the fourth hangar (under the block) to the wall though.

From Ren's hypothetical 200 ft?? BZZZZZT! Wrong!

Not terribly scary... but if that bolt fails, then your last guy dies.
_____

Nice job posting this problem Kurt!

[SRG]

When I come to a single bolt and hanger, I typically rappel off of it after inspection. In this case the two(three?) broken hangers would sketch me out even if the bolt in question looked solid... especially if this is at a rappel station in a canyon.

I'd opt for this...

If I could sneak a piece of webbing under the top anchor's hanger, and, shuffle it around so its on top of the bolt, but, still under the hanger, I'd use that to back up the single bolt.

[Slot Machine]

2-aluminum hangers are toast

hanger with chain, freely rotates on the bolt but bolt doesn't pull with finger pressure.

Top anchor - toast.
Middle anchor - chain.
Bottom anchor - toast.

The toast is still usable IMO.

I like Brian's solution best, but if the toast anchors were bolted tight against the wall, then you should at least try to do something creative with the toast that could hold. Better than leaving your last man's fate to a scary spinner, right?

Cut two pieces of rope, then stuff a piece of rope up and through each of the damaged bolt hangers. Then tie each rope in a big knot, to block the rope from pulling down and through the regular hole in each hanger. Then weight each rope, to see if it pulls through the cut in the anchor. If it does, then you need to fill each damaged hanger with more 'stuff'.

Two ropes in each? To pieces of webbing in each? Whatever fits and doesn't work through the cut in each bolt hanger. Weight each of the three anchors. Make sure they individually will probably hold.

Then you have the chain, plus the two backups.

[Absolute Gravity]

In this case the two(three?) broken hangers would sketch me out even if the bolt in question looked solid... especially if this is at a rappel station in a canyon.

Seriously! Looks like two empty bolt holes, 1 dangling hangar, 2 broken hangars, and then 1 loose hangar. A lot of fail there.

[Slot Machine]

Seriously! Looks like two empty bolt holes, 1 dangling hangar, 2 broken hangars, and then 1 loose hangar. A lot of fail there.

Kurt's shot is from an anchor station in Imlay (if I'm not mistaken). I guess logs are washed through there periodically and destroy those bolts by snagging on the webbing.

Our friend Tom fixed this thing recently, I think. Where is he anyway, to tell us a better solution?

[ratagonia]

Our friend Tom fixed this thing recently, I think. Where is he anyway, to tell us a better solution?

Canyon Collective...

[Absolute Gravity]

Kurt's shot is from an anchor station in Imlay (if I'm not mistaken).

I figured you were not, and it was easy to find.

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/...l-day-weekend/

[Slot Machine]

I joke with you Tom...
_____________________________

Sorry to hijack the thread. It's a good one to get creative with. What would you have done with that anchor Kurt?

[ratagonia]

Kurt's shot is from an anchor station in Imlay (if I'm not mistaken). I guess logs are washed through there periodically and destroy those bolts by snagging on the webbing.

Our friend Tom fixed this thing recently, I think. Where is he anyway, to tell us a better solution?

Tie off the huge log that is 20 feet back.

Or rap off the new, 1/2" bolt. Yeah it is only one bolt. Have you been in Imlay in the last 5 years? There have been like 10 raps off single bolts that are really skanky. So by this point, you have rapped off a bunch of unsafe museum pieces. In comparison, this single, new 1/2" bolt is truck!

Tom

[oldno7]

So---someone post up another anchor

[Udink]

So---someone post up another anchor