What's Wrong?

[SRG]

This is an easy one.... there needs to be a sock or underwear or something tucked under the yellow rope on the left side... you know, for equalization... .. also the shirt should be the same color as the rock... to enhance the "natural feel" of the anchor.

[Slot Machine]

Tie off the huge log that is 20 feet back.
Or rap off the new, 1/2" bolt. Yeah it is only one bolt. Have you been in Imlay in the last 5 years? There have been like 10 raps off single bolts that are really skanky. So by this point, you have rapped off a bunch of unsafe museum pieces. In comparison, this single, new 1/2" bolt is truck!

Hmm... I seem to remember you saying a while back, something like "If my safety is at stake, then maybe isn't good enough." And that seems like a reasonable motto.

I'm sure the new bolt is bomber. BUT, if it fails, you die. Seems odd that you are ok with rapping off a series of single bolts, some that are museum quality. Don't they fall into the 'maybe' category?

Honest question- why so nonchalant about the bolts in Imlay?

Bob

[ratagonia]

Hmm... I seem to remember you saying a while back, something like "If my safety is at stake, then maybe isn't good enough." And that seems like a reasonable motto.

I'm sure the new bolt is bomber. BUT, if it fails, you die. Seems odd that you are ok with rapping off a series of single bolts, some that are museum quality. Don't they fall into the 'maybe' category?

Honest question- why so nonchalant about the bolts in Imlay?

Bob

Not so non-chalant, really. We (ie, Zion locals) have been working to get at least one good bolt into each standard rap over the last few years. It is an on-going project and involves a lot of work. Pretty close to done, at least on the lower canyon.

Those two destroyed aluminum hangers were part of that effort, pretty much the start of that effort. Crazy to see them ripped through like that. Jonathan's replacement bolt w chain was part of that effort. My going in with more tools and and finishing that anchor was part of that effort.

The truth is, people rap off single bolts all the time. Just did The Squeeze - yikes what a nightmare. So many raps there off single bolts, sometimes backed up elsewhere, sometimes not.

See: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/...vey-sept-2012/

So I think it IS a good question.

Long term, rapping off skanky single bolts will catch up with SOMEONE. I'm hoping it is not me, and I have made it a crusade to get rid of skanky bolts in the backcountry. Bolts in the newly revealed Happy Dog, Poe and Baboon are on the list of unsafe single bolts - so we try not to use those (and mostly succeed).

A complicated answer to an apparently single questions. People trust those bolts because it is convenient, and people have trusted them before. It is impossible to eliminate all risk in the sport, but yes people should choose their risks carefully. In this particular case, since I know who placed that bolt and when, and that it is a 1/2" bolt and entirely in shear, I am fully comfortable with rapping off that particular bolt.

Tom

[hesse15]

Not so non-chalant, really. We (ie, Zion locals) have been working to get at least one good bolt into each standard rap over the last few years. It is an on-going project and involves a lot of work. Pretty close to done, at least on the lower canyon.



The truth is, people rap off single bolts all the time. Just did The Squeeze - yikes what a nightmare. So many raps there off single bolts, sometimes backed up elsewhere, sometimes not.
Long term, rapping off skanky single bolts will catch up with SOMEONE. I'm hoping it is not me, and I have made it a crusade to get rid of skanky bolts in the backcountry. Bolts in the newly revealed Happy Dog, Poe and Baboon are on the list of unsafe single bolts - so we try not to use those (and mostly succeed).
Tom

why Imlay does not have stainless steel glue in bolts in couple with rap ring or directly rapping out of the bolt?
they probably will get trashed less in a flood not having much debris can catch on?

[Slot Machine]

why Imlay does not have stainless steel glue in bolts in couple with rap ring or directly rapping out of the bolt?
they probably will get trashed less in a flood not having much debris can catch on?

Great idea! Problem is once you have them installed, you can't use them. They have to cure/dry for a while.

However, you could place 1/2 inch bolts up high and permanantly put steel rings on them. Bolt hanger - quick link - steel ring.

Just put some epoxy on the threads of the quick link, so they don't wander away.

Disclaimer - I've never bolted anything. Just an idea. YMMV.

Bob