Post your anchor improvements/replacements

[mzamp]

Stole this idea from the canyon trash album. Rules are simple: take a before and after picture of an anchor you replaced because it was old or just poorly rigged. If you want, you can say where and what rap the photo was from.


Before: log double wrapped with webbing, but tied only to one loop.


After: log double wrapped and both loops ties in an overhand knot.

[WorkBad]

Stole my thread did ya! ARRRR ye be a pirate! JK good idea.

[Slot Machine]

Before: log double wrapped with webbing, but tied only to one loop.

After: log double wrapped and both loops ties in an overhand knot.

Uh, uhhh...

Those two anchors are equally good IMO, as long as all knots are properly tied. Please explain any safety improvment A over B, maybe I'm missing something.

[Aj84737]

If one strand in "a" is cut the anchor fails where as in "b" is one stand fails its backed up. At least that's how it looks to me in the pics.

[Slot Machine]

If one strand in "a" is cut the anchor fails where as in "b" is one stand fails its backed up. At least that's how it looks to me in the pics.

Sounds like Constrychnaphobia to me (i.e. the irrational fear of the Constrychnine accident).

Have you ever seen a log slice through a piece of webbing?

[oldno7]

First pic is a "wrap 2 pull 1", it has it's place, mostly to locate webbing at an exact spot on a particular feature.

ie. want to make a pull cleaner by having webbing higher on a tree, without risk of it slipping down the tree, etc.

it is not tied proper for a wrap 2 pull 1 but close.

If you don't know why you are changing out webbing or more importantly, how you will improve what's there, maybe you need skoolin'


2nd picture appears to be a 4 strand "basket hitch", if so, it would be rated for around 16,000lbs.

[Aj84737]

I'm not saying I would worry about the tree cutting the webbing. I was just pointing out what I seen. I have no problem rapping from a wrap 2 pull 1 setup.

[Slot Machine]

I'm not saying I would worry about the tree cutting the webbing. I was just pointing out what I seen. I have no problem rapping from a wrap 2 pull 1 setup.

Makes sense.

So, @mzamp, what spurred the rebuild?

[Aj84737]

Idk I wasn't there. I have no clue where or what this rappel is. Just pointing out the difference between the 2. Personally unless the first webbing was old and crappy I would have been fine with it. However I also think the 2nd webbing is a complete bomber anchor that wouldn't need replacing anytime soon. It's a clean way to make a really solid anchor. And it looks a lot less tacky then when everybody just adds a stand of webbing to back up an anchor and we end up with 3 seperate strands of different colored webbing. I think mzamp has a clean looking solid anchor there. Great job.

[Slot Machine]

Idk I wasn't there. I have no clue where or what this rappel is. Just pointing out the difference between the 2.

Right-o. I hear ya, loud and clear. I'm trying to get further clarification from @mzamp... maybe should have witten my last post a little more clearly. ?

[oldno7]

So maybe it might be more prudent to take this thread in a different direction.

How about we do a "whats wrong" thread?

I started one years ago on the old aca site and it was a great learning tool.

If Shane will move this, start with the first picture and ask yourself--whats wrong.

It has flaws, albeit not potentially serious ones.

[Brian in SLC]

Big Cottonwood Canyon, SLC...

Before:



After:

[mzamp]

Wow - what a mess before on that one. What's that rusty thing holdng the right hanger in?

fyi - I replaced the webbing only because I was told we were the first to go through this season and it felt brittle and had slight fraying.

[skiclimb3287]

Deleted. Reposted in appropriate "what's wrong" thread.

[SRG]

If I am not mistaken, on a wrap 2 pull 1, the water knot should be against the front of the tree so that more friction is working in your favor to help reduce the stress on the knot.

Yes, this is one of the major advantages of the wrap 2 pull 1 rigging. In the first pic the water knot would have less force applied to it if it were positioned on the front of the tree. Even less force if it were a wrap 3 pull 2.

In the picture, the quicklink is attached to the webbing at an overhand on a bight. I think this knot would become the weak spot in the rigging and negate the strengthening effects of isolating the water knot mid-tree.

[Slot Machine]

fyi - I replaced the webbing only because I was told we were the first to go through this season and it felt brittle and had slight fraying.

Ah! Good reason!

I suspected that 6000 lb vs 16000 lb (or whatever) breaking strength concerns were creeping into your critical thought process. Obviously, not the case.

[hesse15]

the right bolt in the before picture inspires totally confidence.....yeakkkkk

[2065toyota]

The wedge style anchor has been the go to anchoring system for a while now. I am curious as to how the new Titan HD bolts could possibly be a new improvement. They are easier to install and have a much greater pull out strength and shear strength than the wedge style. I know in a lot of our applications we are now required to use the HD's instead of wedge anchors when installing into concrete surfaces. I will see if I can find any info on using them in sandstone.

[Scott P]

On both of the photos in the original post, what is the purpose of putting a knot near the rapid link?

[Brian in SLC]

Master point isolation methinks, Scott.

For anchors which use a loop that's also knotted, I guess the thinking is that if one of the strands of webbing were to wear out, the other's would take up the slack, so to speak, without a total anchor failure. Seems to be commonly done now.

I like a simple sling around a tree with the rapide loose. Makes it easy to roll the webbing around for a complete 360 degree inspection. Also, can shift to spread out the wear if needed. For redundancy, I'd almost prefer another separate sling, than, a doubled sling.

Advantages and disadvantages to both, I suppose...