Manti Boy Scouts, leaders airlifted after being stranded in slot canyon

[oldno7]

Both of which are being discussed here, with glaringly different tones. That is the real difference. Again IMO

Dang Steve, have you not been reading Christina's account of Constrychnine?

I trust her eye and judgement.

So we once again arrive at a point were we have beginners, leading beginners, in easy canyons and getting hurt(Constrychnine incident)

Seems folks get 8-10 easy canyons under their belt and go to Amazon and purchase a Superman suit, only to find out it has no powers.

No one can escape every canyon without scars, the canyons will catch up, and quickly to those with no respect or training for canyons.

[Spidey]

I think the difference in tone is due to, that in one, the fellow who made the mistake got seriously hurt. There is a reluctance by some to speak poorly of those in the hospital, no matter how incompetent they were.

Tom

Very true Tom good point.

[unimog]

Seems to me that most climbing/canyoneering accidents are "entirely avoidable" when analyzed with hindsight.

[Scott P]

I think the difference in tone is due to, that in one, the fellow who made the mistake got seriously hurt. There is a reluctance by some to speak poorly of those in the hospital, no matter how incompetent they were.

Another difference might be that some involved in the Constrychnine accident are members of canyoneering forums. For many, it's easier to hold your tongue if you know they might be reading your post. Easier to bash a group you don't know (know either in person or on forums).

[DOSS]

Seems to me that most climbing/canyoneering accidents are "entirely avoidable" when analyzed with hindsight.

And this is why the climbing/canyoneering communities want as much detail as possible about each incident, over and beyond morbid curiosity I want to know how others screwed up so that I can avoid doing such in the future.

[hesse15]

I think the difference in tone is due to, that in one, the fellow who made the mistake got seriously hurt. There is a reluctance by some to speak poorly of those in the hospital, no matter how incompetent they were.

Tom

by the way update on the injured person, he is at home and need to rest broken hips and broken ankle but at least they are aligned so no need for surjery, he is in good spirit and his kids are helping him ( he lives alone) ,enough good spirit that he allowed me to criticize him badly......and he admitted I was wright!!!!!!!
probably the effect of the drugs
that fella is tough, he just need to be little less playful sometime!!!

[Absolute Gravity]

enough good spirit that he allowed me to criticize him badly......and he admitted I was wright!

I'm betting you can deliver one hell of an ass chewing.

[Mountaineer]

by the way update on the injured person, he is at home and need to rest broken hips and broken ankle but at least they are aligned so no need for surjery, he is in good spirit and his kids are helping him

All glad he is OK and doing well.

[hesse15]

I'm betting you can deliver one hell of an ass chewing.

yep!!!!
do not super like when somebody i know almost kill himself!!!!!!!

[Kuya]

I'm betting you can deliver one hell of an ass chewing.

X2 especially since I feel like she is yelling at everyone in all of her posts. Kinda makes me feel like she is always yelling all the time maybe it is the excessive use of the exclamation point? idk remind me to never get on your bad side Hesse15 LOL

[hesse15]

X2 especially since I feel like she is yelling at everyone in all of her posts. Kinda makes me feel like she is always yelling all the time maybe it is the excessive use of the exclamation point? idk remind me to never get on your bad side Hesse15 LOL

when you are on my good side I am the sweetest canyonette around!!!!!

usually people doing unsafe practices in canyons they get in the black list!!!!

I do not like when a super fun activity turn deadly!!!!

[Iceaxe]

X2 especially since I feel like she is yelling at everyone in all of her posts.

For those playing along at home who don't know Hesse, English is her second language. I've noticed this sometimes makes her writing seem very direct, but a nicer person you will never meet.



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Slot Machine]

Kinda makes me feel like she is always yelling all the time

She's not yelling, she's Italian!



Bob!

[penmartens]

I would like to point out that 'victims' who have alerted the sheriff of a need for help often do not get to choose what level of assistance they will receive.
It is entirely the sheriff's call as to how he can/ should use the resources available to him. Time and effort to get to the 'victim' as well as time and effort to get out of the canyon and to medical care (if needed), weather, and availability of SAR personnel are some of the variables to consider. Often it is the case that a helicopter is the quickest and easiest way to resolve an 'emergency'. It is the Sheriff's call.

[hesse15]

X2 especially since I feel like she is yelling at everyone in all of her posts.

Just to point is not always the case
<<<<Christina teaches me step by step, a lot of the impossible became possible, became familiar, became fun, and became something we hope for, Thanks Christina!! Amazing tight slot canyons finally welcome us! Pictures are worth a thousand words>>>
Rambler magazine May2013 page20-23
http://www.wasatchmountainclub.org/r...ve/may2013.pdf

[Iceaxe]

A little more information is in the NPS Morning Report.

Capitol Reef National Park (UT)
Stranded Scouts Rescued From Slot Canyon

During the early morning hours of Sunday, April 21st, rangers and Wayne County Sheriff's Department officers responded to a call of stranded canyoneers in the Pandora's Box slot canyon. The group, consisting of nine Boy Scouts and leaders from Manti, Utah, dropped into the canyon at noon on Saturday. After completing about half of the canyon route, they concluded that one member was too exhausted to continue and that another member was too large to squeeze through the narrow slot sections ahead. Five of nine members of the party were able to complete the route, but had taken the group’s ropes and other equipment to do so. At daylight on Sunday, the Wayne County Search and Rescue Team was flown to the rim using a Utah Department of Public Safety helicopter. Once there, they raised each member of the stranded group 300 feet to the canyon rim. Unhurt, the rescued individuals were flown out of the backcountry. Pandora's Box is widely considered to be one of the more difficult canyoneering routes on the Colorado Plateau. The incident was managed jointly with the country sheriff’s department.
[Submitted by Scott Brown, Chief Ranger]

[Absolute Gravity]

dropped into the canyon at noon on Saturday

Haven't done the canyon yet, but this is quite the late start, no?

[Iceaxe]

Haven't done the canyon yet, but this is quite the late start, no?

Yup, assuming the report is accurate this trip was doomed to failure from the start. I suggest first timers be hiking at first light, which this time of year means no later than 6:30 am, and you should be dropping into the slot about 8:30 at the latest.

Expect 10 hours for a small group of very experianced canyoneers, time goes up exponentually from there with group size, errors in navigation and lack of skills.