Manti Boy Scouts, leaders airlifted after being stranded in slot canyon

[hesse15]

For this particular Manti troop, we don't have many details, so slow to make any judgment.

love those boyscouts misadventures!!!
was a while that you did not hear from them in the news!
at least when they did not involved death they made pretty funny story telling around campsite!!!!
like the one " chubby kid stuck in zeroG"?
that was funny!!!!
with so little news still I will say poor judgment in taking bunch of kids to Pandora for sure!!!!

SAR does not have much money so is better if they are deployed for real life emergency and this does one not seem the case .

[Kuya]

Kuya, I'm just jealous of you and your troop because my scout leaders never took me through canyons when I was young. Good on ya!

I'm also very happy everyone in the article survived to tell about it!

Thanks WorkBad! I too am Jealous of my scouts. I would have LOVED to do stuff like this as a Scout. We had the San Rafael Swell as our literal back yard, and we didn't have a clue to how awesome it really was! Being in leader in scouting now is really just an excuse to go out and play and do all the things I wish I could have done as a boy LOL

[Iceaxe]

I had an awesome scout leader when I was a kid. He took us everywhere and we did everything, I still can't believe he brought us all back alive from all our trips. First night I spent in a snow cave was with my scout troop, first time I kayaked a river was with my scout troop, First time I ever backpacked for a week through the Uinta's was with my scout troop, first time I climbed Mount Olympus was with my scout troop.... thanks Mr. Winn.

And just in case he reads this.... first time I hot wired a car and took it for a joy ride was with my scout troop, first time I made out with a chick was with my scout troop, first time I hookey bobbed was with my scout troop.... that's some of the stuff he never knew about.

Scouting was fun.

[Kuya]

love those boyscouts misadventures!!!
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with so little news still I will say poor judgment in taking bunch of kids to Pandora for sure!!!!

SAR does not have much money so is better if they are deployed for real life emergency and this does one not seem the case .

I disagree, What exactly is there to love about Boy Scout misadventures? makes me sick every time it happens. those are other peoples kids, and when ever something stupid or bad happens it makes it that much harder for the rest of us to do cool things in scouting.

I do agree that it was poor judgement for any scout leader to take a troop through Pandoras Box. There are so many other wonderful slot canyons that are much more scout friendly than that one. If it was a venturing troop I MIGHT think differently though. Depends on the skill level of the leader and the kids.

What exactly makes this rescue ineligible for SAR help? Kids and leaders were stranded in the canyon. Sounds like a real emergency to me.

[nelsonccc]

Scouts and canyons CAN be fun but are a ton of work. When I was a scout leader a few years ago we decided to do some slot canyons. I was doing a couple a month with some of the other guys in the neighborhood. I was so concerned about safety that we first went to a local cliff and practiced rappelling a few weekends in a row. Then a few weeks later we did Keyhole all in prep for doing Spry. What a nightmare. Even though we had prepared and every boy had a set-up and wetsuit it still ended up being a very long day. I had underestimated how long it would take to get that many leaders and boys down each rap. On top of that I was unaware that the dirt cone descent route had been blocked off. We'd used the dirt cone the first few times I'd done it (this was long before they decided not to allow this and put up the signs). SO when we arrived at the dirt cone and there was a sign there we started going down stream and hiking around big boulders. We did not do the big cliff rap there in the middle. Since at this time it was night and our main goal was to get down. In any case.....one mother had called the NPS and they had seen our lights coming down and were waiting at the bottom. We were all okay but roughly 5-6 hours past due. We didn't get back to the road till about 9, so when the the mother hadn't heard from her kid (we were supposed to be back in Vegas by 7ish) she panicked and assumed we were all dead.

Very frustrating. We were never in any danger and we all had lights (just in case) and the leaders all had overnight gear (again just in case). We always knew where we were and decided early on that it was more important to be thorough and safe rather than fast and dangerous. We did have some pretty cold kids at one point with the darkness coming and the wind blowing and wet kids at the bottom waiting for an hour or so while others rapped. But nothing too serious. It was an eye opening experience that even though we were prepared and ready for the trip it still took us about twice as long as I had expected. Myself and two of the other leaders had done pretty much every canyon in Zion before the trip but still that extra time kept creeping and creeping till parents got scared. When we got home my wife said that she'd been fielding calls from worried parents all evening.

So in any case I would never, ever, tackle a canyon with youth that I had not done before and on subsequent trips to Pine and Echo we told the parents not to expect a call or get worried till at least midnight.

[rnelson]

5. Selected a route that guarantee's a high probability of success.

I especially feel like this point is often overlooked - there ought never be even a question of whether or not a troop would be able to successfully complete a canyon.

[nelsonccc]

I had an awesome scout leader when I was a kid. He took us everywhere and we did everything, I still can't believe he brought us all back alive from all our trips. First night I spent in a snow cave was with my scout troop, first time I kayaked a river was with my scout troop, First time I ever backpacked for a week through the Uinta's was with my scout troop, first time I climbed Mount Olympus was with my scout troop.... thanks Mr. Winn.

And just in case he reads this.... first time I hot wired a car and took it for a joy ride was with my scout troop, first time I made out with a chick was with my scout troop, first time I hookey bobbed was with my scout troop.... that's some of the stuff he never knew about.

Scouting was fun.

Ditto. So many cool experiences as a scout. So many close-calls. Like the time I was playing with a lighter in the suburban as we were driving to a camp site and accidentally lit another kids hair on fire. Or the time two other scouts pulled open the doors to the young woman's tent while I mooned about 10 girls and three leaders (I later heard that I accidentally gave them the full BULL view, sack and all). I was the 'bad kid' for quite some time after that. The bishops boy was no longer allowed to hang out with me.

Great memories and the difficult or dangerous situations are the ones I remember the most. So many harrowing experiences!

[hesse15]

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i wrote a long answer but after I realized was mostly smashing at boyscouts and their negative records of accident so I removed

just hoping that because of these accidents they will not put permit system in canyons !!

I will not send my kids with boyscouts after all of those accidents, unless I am allow to check first hand the competence of the leader!

[airman]

It would be nice to know the particulars of this incident so that all may learn from it. I hope someone will post additional info on what happened. Not knowing what happened, I will refrain from passing judgment. I

[unimog]

There are a lot of assumptions flying on this thread about the capabilities of these scouts and their leaders. In my opinion, The fact that they are a BSA group says nothing about either unless you are using a stereotype or know facts that have not been stated here. It also has little to do with whether the rescue was fully warranted or "wasted" as seems to be the opinion of some here. If exhaustion or getting in over your head does not warrant rescue, that would certainly eliminate a lot of SAR activity.

[phatch]

If exhaustion or getting in over your head does not warrant rescue, that would certainly eliminate a lot of SAR activity.

On the Rim-to-Rim hike in the Grand Canyon, the rangers routinely offer up water and the occasional pain med to exhausted hikers saying "tough it out". The costs of rescuing exhausted hikers on this trail is prohibitive because it would be multiple times per day.

The risks are certainly different on this hike than in Pandora. Hikers are visible, easy to check on with many contacts with other hikers and rangers, and will work their way out just later than scheduled.

Just saying exhaustion is not necessarily a SAR event.

[Don]

I had an awesome scout leader when I was a kid. He took us everywhere and we did everything, I still can't believe he brought us all back alive from all our trips. First night I spent in a snow cave was with my scout troop, first time I kayaked a river was with my scout troop, First time I ever backpacked for a week through the Uinta's was with my scout troop, first time I climbed Mount Olympus was with my scout troop.... thanks Mr. Winn.

And just in case he reads this.... first time I hot wired a car and took it for a joy ride was with my scout troop, first time I made out with a chick was with my scout troop, first time I hookey bobbed was with my scout troop.... that's some of the stuff he never knew about.

Scouting was fun.

Man, I was with you 'awesome scout leader'; 'first snow cave', 'first kayak', 'first backpack a week in the Uintas', and while not Olympus my first summit, Mt Timpanogos, was as a scout. You lost me with the hot wiring and making out, never did those in scouts, but then I'm right back with you on the first hooky bob! I had actually forgotten that phrase 'hooky bob'. Hilarious.

[Mountaineer]

There are a lot of assumptions flying on this thread about the capabilities of these scouts and their leaders.

Agree with this, and what has been stated by others elsewhere. We don't know the circumstances. Most likely there was some inadequate planning. Nobody was seriously hurt or killed. Thus, most likely, some improved decisions were made later.

Would be great to get more detail from anyone who has knowledge of the circumstances. It benefits the community: on how to improve and help each other.

[Udink]

There are a lot of assumptions flying on this thread about the capabilities of these scouts and their leaders. In my opinion, The fact that they are a BSA group says nothing about either unless you are using a stereotype or know facts that have not been stated here. It also has little to do with whether the rescue was fully warranted or "wasted" as seems to be the opinion of some here. If exhaustion or getting in over your head does not warrant rescue, that would certainly eliminate a lot of SAR activity.

Aren't you also making assumptions by defending this group without knowing the facts? Hrmmm...

Sure, exhaustion and/or getting in over your head can be legitimate reasons for SAR, but legitimately needing rescue doesn't excuse one from legitimate criticism. They could (and should!) have known that Pandora's Box was beyond the abilities of some members of the group.

[Iceaxe]

I don't think it's much of an assumption to assume the group bit off more than they could chew.

Also not much of an assumption to anyone that has done the route to know that a large group of scouts are going to experience serious time issues with Pandora's Box.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[hank moon]

There are a lot of assumptions flying on this thread about the capabilities of these scouts and their leaders. In my opinion, The fact that they are a BSA group says nothing about either unless you are using a stereotype or know facts that have not been stated here. It also has little to do with whether the rescue was fully warranted or "wasted" as seems to be the opinion of some here. If exhaustion or getting in over your head does not warrant rescue, that would certainly eliminate a lot of SAR activity.

Rescue can take many forms, from helicopter evac for life-threatening emergencies, to dropping off a pack of energy bars and water for those merely struggling. In this case, a helicopter was used for a (so far as we know) non life-threatening emergency, which to some may seem excessive.

So let's understand the question as relating to the form of the rescue, not the need.

[hank moon]

duplicate post deleted

[hesse15]

Rescue can take many forms, from helicopter evac for life-threatening emergencies, to dropping off a pack of energy bars and water for those merely struggling.

must be expensive power bars and water if require an elicopter (to move that big toy there cost at least 5k$)

[hank moon]

must be expensive power bars and water if require an elicopter (to move that big toy there cost at least 5k$)

hee hee. just a plain ol' person using gravity to drop a pack...

or maybe one of those new phone-piloted drones.

[Scott Card]

As to the story..... I have taken many, many youth groups through slot canyons. Ice and others have made good points about not biting off more than you can chew, previewing canyons, etc. etc. I would add one more personal rule. I don't take youth groups into technical slot canyons that are under the age of 16. Finally, I limit the Dad factor. If they are not willing to train, swim test, practice with the boys, and follow the leaders instructions, they too are not welcome.