Newbie Alert and canyon list

[RyanA]

The wife and I are going to do a 4 day canyoneering course through Rich in May. After that I have permits for Subway(hopefully through Russell Gulch too) and Mystery canyon in June. I have been throwing the idea of Kolob creek in the mix as well, I know it is a lot harder and technical, ect. I was wondering if Kolob would be a smart or stupid choice so early in our canyoneering adventures.

[Iceaxe]

Hmmm.... kinda depends. Kolob is pretty straight forward. My biggest concern is the cold water is not forgiving of mistakes. Ideally it would be nice if you had a few more canyons under your belt. How about swapping Fat Man's Misery for Kolob and saving Kolob for next yeat?

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[RyanA]

Fat Man's Misery also looks like a good canyon. Kolob just looks awesome in all the pictures I have seen. We would be renting wetsuits if we went down Kolob. Would tha make a difference on your insight?

[Iceaxe]

Honestly... with only a couple of canyons under your belt you would just be asking for trouble with a Kolob descent. There are so many little things you will have yet to master.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[tcott]

The wife and I are going to do a 4 day canyoneering course through Rich in May. After that I have permits for Subway(hopefully through Russell Gulch too) and Mystery canyon in June. I have been throwing the idea of Kolob creek in the mix as well, I know it is a lot harder and technical, ect. I was wondering if Kolob would be a smart or stupid choice so early in our canyoneering adventures.

Lack of experience can be easily compensated for by adding more experienced people to the group . Kolob is one of the colder canyons around so dress accordingly (wetsuits, neo socks, gloves, hoods, rain jacket over the wetsuit helps alot). Shouldn't be too hard to get a couple more experienced people together for a Kolob run. If I'm not busy at the time I'm always up for a Kolob trip.

TJ

[Iceaxe]

What tcott said.... Kolob is certainly newbie friendly with competent leadership.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Scott P]

Lower Kolob would be a good one that is Newbie friendly, plus you get to see the best part of the Zion Narrows. I really like Lower Kolob, but it doesn't seem to get much attention.

[Iceaxe]

I've done the through trip out the Narrows a couple of times. It's really a nice trip but takes two days for most parties. We've done the through route from both Kolob and Eye of the Needle. I don't think there is a chance in hell I'd do just lower Kiolob (enter through MIA) without doing something else with it.

FWIW: this picture I took of Hank Moon and Ryan Cornia was taken in Lower Kolob. There is more to lower Kolob then most people realize. Everyone should do the through trip at least once.



PS: Boundary is anther option

[RyanA]

Honestly... with only a couple of canyons under your belt you would just be asking for trouble with a Kolob descent. There are so many little things you will have yet to master.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

K we won't try and desend kolob by ourselves.

[RyanA]

tcott we'll take you up on your offer. I'll message.you the dates we will.be down there and see if we can get a day worked out.

[RyanA]

iceaxe so about boundary it is more forgiving than kolob? that one looks fun also. Wetsuits for that too correct?

[Iceaxe]

Boundary is probably slightly more forgiving. The biggest benefit of Boundary is you don't need a permit. Probably still not a good idea for newbs without competent leadership.

FWIW -Boundary is kind of a strange beast. In the mid-2000's it would dry up in summer, but that has not been the case the last few years after they finished the water project at Kolob reservoir. My theory is they changed the local water table.

A couple more items.... if coming out the MIA the first time on your own don't underestimate the navigation requirements as you will be slow and maybe extremely slow. Doing slots as a pair is much safer then solo, but you still don't have the safety margins of a larger group. My experience with students just graduated from canyon school is they know a lot of cool stuff, but they don't have a lot of experience selecting the right tool for the job and tend to be slow and often don't select the ideal setup. YMMV

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Bootboy]

A canyon course does not a canyoneer make.
It would be best to work your way up and get practical experience with your new skills. Milk before meat.

I've met people who have taken canyon courses and have tons of svelte gear, but have crappy judgement, poor leadership skills, and lack the ability to think critically, and that I would never do a canyon with, even if I was leading.

On the other hand, some of the best canyon partners I've had didn't have any formal training. They are the kind of people who "just get it", and are adept at this sort of thing.

The inverse of both of these instances can often be true as well. Be honest with yourself and your skills. Be confident but not cocky. And above all, be safe.

Boots

[ratagonia]

iceaxe so about Boundary it is more forgiving than Kolob? that one looks fun also. Wetsuits for that too correct?

While Boundary is more forgiving than Kolob, it is still an intense canyon that requires canyon skills. While I think it is a good idea to get training, what makes for a competent canyoneer is training AND experience. Experience more important than training.

I realize there is an enthusiasm to do the BIG BOY canyons. I think it is wonderful that you have that enthusiasm. The way you do that is you hook up with some experienced canyoneers so they can show you how canyoneering is done. Rich's course will show your the basics of ropework, but he does not teach you "how canyoneering is done". THAT is learned by doing canyoneering.

May I suggest that some of the following be on your agenda: Pine Creek, Behunin, Spry, Fat Man's, Birch Hollow, Telephone, Russell Gulch. Once you have a few canyons under your belt, and have gotten the rope stuck a few times, you will be ready to move up, but don't be too anxious. The canyons will still be there next year. Make it a goal for you to be there too.

[edsbay]

Pine Creek is the 3rd canyon I did after Mystery and The Subway and thought it was a good next step up based on rappels off of logjams, rope pulls, raps into potholes with water and the final free 100 foot rappel. Highly recommended and great after a couple of days of canyoneering with a 50 yard approach and easy hike out!