FiddleStick finally available

[ratagonia]

Two years in the making, by a cast of thousands - The FiddleStick is now available as an Imlay Canyon Gear product.

The FiddleStick is an advanced canyoneering anchor tool. It is a new approach to retrievable anchoring, opening up a wider range of possible anchors, and making it possible to descend more canyons while leaving nothing behind (aka “ghosting”). As an ADVANCED anchor tool, it requires skill, practice and understanding to use safely. Even when used properly, it has the possibility of failing, resulting in severe injury or death, or being stranded in a canyon with your ropes hopelessly stuck.



The FiddleStick retrievable anchor system has some great benefits:

- Rope grooves are virtually eliminated.
- Anchors can be well back from the edge of the rappel.
- Anchors can be around corners.
- Uses little to no webbing.
- Can easily and safely “ghost” in many circumstances.
- Faster to rig than most any other anchor.
- Lightweight.
- Fun!

The “FiddleStick” is both a product and a concept. It is certainly possible to make very reasonable FiddleSticks at home, but it is somewhat difficult to improvise them in the field from commonly carried materials.
While it is possible to use the FiddleStick on traderoute canyons, to not contribute to deeper rope grooves or make some pulls easier, it really shines on first descents and in rarely-traveled backcountry canyons where it is of substantial benefit to not leave junk behind.

Using the FiddleStick
The FiddleStick is based on the Stone knot. The Stone (Stein) knot can be used to secure both sides of a doubled rope so both can be rappelled on. The concept is the same when FiddleSticking, but one end of the rope is just a short tail, while the other (long) end is used to rappel on. A pull cord removes the FiddleStick, and the Stone knot falls apart, leaving a short, clean end of the rope to be pulled out from around the anchor, and down the drop.

There are several versions of the Stone Knot, but the one we recommend for the FiddleStick is the Upward Overhand Stone, which has the most consistent disintegration once the Stick is pulled. Learn more about tying and uses of the Stone knot at: CUSA Tech Tip: The Stone Knot

By replacing the carabiner in the Stone knot with a stick and leaving one strand short, you create a very slick retrievable anchor. Upon removing the stick, the knot falls apart, and only the short end of the rope needs to pull from around the anchor.

More Information available at CUSA Tech Tip: The FiddleStick

Available for sale at the CUSA Store and at better Canyoneering Retailers everywhere.

[Slot Machine]

Interesting... I have mixed feelings about this one.

I will probably get to field test your new product in the next few days (or at least witness a field test, should I deem the test crazy). I'll write an objective review when I get back.

[2065toyota]

I am happy with how they turned out. I don't feel there is any risk of it "falling" out. It can be pulled or pushed out however. The attached pic is a situation where the the only anchor placement was in the drainage. To tie the knot farther down would have put it over the lip which makes it harder to start. I was very careful to rap to the side and twist the rope so the stick was laid flat against the rock rather than being pushed out. I see this as being something that could be easily overlooked as setting it up if very easy. As with anything, practice and pay attention to the details

[ilipichicuma]

I've used my home made fiddlestick many times on a variety of rappels. You do have to be careful about how it lays against things around it and keep an eye on it, but overall I've really liked it. It's worked awesome every time I've used it.

[Slot Machine]

I copied this from the CC, since I think it is very important for every potential fiddlesticker to know. Big props to Tom for sharing this information!

On our first rappel on Sunday, we had an odd thing happen. A 40' rappel off an arch, from an exposed stance, with Ram going last, using a brand new Imlay 8mm rope for the rap, and a 6mm pull cord for the pull. Ram pulled the carabiner out and re-cinched the knot. When he lifted the rope up to rig his rappel device, the FiddleStick fell out and went to the ground.

If the setup had been a little different, the rappelling rope could have also fallen out, which could have had dire consequences. We had previously used the FiddleStick exclusively with well-used ropes (I think).

BE VERY CAREFUL when the rope is brand new and slippery. Cinch the Stone Knot down tightly on the FiddleStick, and see how sticky it is. Make sure it is sticky enough that it will not fall out.

It also calls for CARE while Rappelling - keep tension on the rope until you are at the bottom, and/or, if you unweight the rope between segments of a rappel, be sure to TEST the anchor again before you put your weight on it again.

______________________________

There is also one other major problem that I've thought of regarding the fiddlestick:

When rappelling from the fiddlestick, there is the potential to release the knot by stepping on, or snagging the fiddlestick pullcord.

This issue can be resolved by pulling up a few lengths of pullcord and piling it beside the anchor, creating a few feet of buffer should you hit/snag/step on the pullcord.

I'm not bagging on the product, or on Tom, it's just a concern that I thought of when using a SandTrap this past weekend.

[Brian in SLC]

I'm not bagging on the product...

I will. I think its a foolish product to promote and a foolish technique to use. It'll hurt or kill someone soon enough.

Its one of those techniques that should be mentioned around the fire by folks in casual conversation with regard to techniques used but not promoted, or, thought of as "safe" for most people.

Any technique that requires LAMAR every time its used, if used often, will eventually play out badly.

Just like releasable hitches. Macrame knot. Etc. These kill even experienced people.

Even when used properly, it has the possibility of failing, resulting in severe injury or death, or being stranded in a canyon with your ropes hopelessly stuck.

Wow, that's quite the sales pitch.

Rig the FiddleStick in plain sight. While this is not a requirement, it is nice if the FiddleStick can be seen while getting on rappel, and even better if it can be seen from the bottom of the drop. This allows you to keep an eye on it at all times.

If I can't trust and anchor or my rigging enough to take my eye of it...then...I don't trust it.


The FiddleStick could get stuck on something. You checked really carefully ahead of time, right? If it sticks after coming out of the knot DON’T PULL IT YET.- If the FiddleStick doesn’t come out you are “jacked up” or “buggered” (technical terms).

They why use it? Less is more. Dedicated piece of gear that could get stuck. Not optimal.


If not, add some security to the pull cord side by:- Snagging the pull cord on a bush or stick, that can then be easily broken by a pull from below;
- Back from the edge, stack a rock or two atop the pull cord, to hold it until pulled from below. Be sure the stack is far enough back that the rock will not be knocked over the edge;

Oh, goodness no. So, get the pull cord stuck ahead of time? Yeah, that's a good idear. Or, how 'bout a stack of rocks that could spill over and clock you whilst on rappel?

Canyoneering...taking something simple and safe like rappelling and making it as dangerous as possible...

[Slot Machine]

It'll hurt or kill someone soon enough...

I've taken the time to consider this from every angle, and I tend to agree.

Jenny West showed us both the SandTrap and the Fiddlestick this past weekend. I kept an open mind about both products during my lessons. Even though they are both new and novel anchors, they are VERY different. The saftey margain between the two products is HUGE. (I only bring up the SandTrap because I think that many people lump 'novel' anchoring systems into the same category. However, there are big differences between each product in the 'novel' category.)

So, here is my conclusion:

I don't think I would ever use a Fiddlestick, and I wouldn't want anyone in my group to use one either. If the stick can move, or the stone knot can come loose once you are set up and ready to rap, then what good is it? It's a choice between compromising safety or leaving a groove.

In comparison, The SandTrap is a predicatable and reliable product. With proper instruction it is just as safe as your average carin/deadman anchor. Once a few members of your team have tested it, the SandTrap 'settles in' and doesn't move. The Sandtrap doesn't leak sand (like a water anchor might leak water) and is surprisingly stable. I could make Deathcricket a believer, trust me.

Anyway, that is my objective opinion. I admire the spirit of innovation, but don't admire the reliability of the Fiddlestick.

Bob

[Iceaxe]

I think its a foolish product to promote and a foolish technique to use. It'll hurt or kill someone soon enough.

^^^THIS^^^

This FiddleStick technique is nothing but a giant gamble every time you use it. And the major problem with that is you only have one big chip to bet on every toss of the dice, sooner or later this is going to come up snake eyes for someone.

I'm betting it will be some poor noob trying to copy the A-team and at the current rate of promotion I'm putting the over/under at 2 years.

[mzamp]

Tom,
Umm, why isn't there a hole in each end of the fiddlestick so you can secure it with a canyon quickdraw and prevent it from ever slipping out of the stone knot? last man down has to remove the quickdraw, but at least they got to watch how the fiddlestick interacts with the rocks/environment while someone is rapping.

[Deathcricket]

I could make Deathcricket a believer, trust me.

Anyway, that is my objective opinion. I admire the spirit of innovation, but don't admire the reliability of the Fiddlestick.

Bob

Ha! I dunno maybe if I saw it in action. I'm pretty easily convinced to do risky stuff.

I have also been on a couple trips with Kody (2065Toyota) and that dude is legit and very competent (and his crew). So I would probably even rap on a fiddlestick if he told me he felt it was safe and busted it out on a trip. But I still gotta admit that water trap and fiddle stick scare the F-ing crap outta me. Risking my life over a $10 bolt just doesn't seem like fun. I was just reading that bummer thread about a guy dieing off a webbing mishap and that is rock solid tech. Yet someone still died. There is just too many variables in this equation IMO, when your life is on the line.

[2065toyota]

There is no doubt, somebody will eventually get hurt using a fiddlestick and there will be a huge discussion on how unsafe they are and why they shouldn't be used. And all will be legit arguments. That being said, fiddlesticks are mainly used off of trees and large boulders. Both of these items are stronger anchors than a bolt placed into some sandstone. If you disagree, place a bolt in some sandstone and hook your vehicle to it and see how easily it pulls out. Now hook you car to tree trunk and see if it comes out. Good luck. People have been injured and killed by using webbing. There isn't a huge discussion that it should be banned, only used and tied properly. People have been injured and killed from biner blocks by rapping off the wrong rope. Same conclusion, use it properly. The fiddlestick is just another arsenal that if used properly serves it's purpose and is safe. If you don't feel comfortable using it, then don't. The setup is faster than a biner block because there is no feeding through the anchor, and the clean up is faster than a biner block because you are only unbagging the exact amount of rope used for the rap and pull. Sorry Jake, my wife wont allow me to go with the Z crew anymore once she found out how dangerous you are.

[hesse15]

^^^THIS^^^
I'm betting it will be some poor noob trying to copy the A-team and at the current rate of promotion I'm putting the over/under at 2 years.

you totally got the point, so many out there now day that do 2 canyons and thinking they are PRO!!!!

but at the same time there is the DISCLAIMER., you just need to read it and use your brain.

to be out there and never had an accident I think you need to have the right mind!

we never been a single time any close to having problems, HE will never wanted to risk to deal with MY MOTHER if something was going to happens to me in a canyon!!!!!

but I was fortunate do do canyons with ONE OF THE BEST canyoneer out there!!!!

[Deathcricket]

Sorry Jake, my wife wont allow me to go with the Z crew anymore once she found out how dangerous you are.

And to think, she let me belay her and the kids before she knew.

I don't think the issue is how strong the system locks in, or how tough/strong the anchors are, I think the issue is how easily it falls out and unlocks with zero warning. I can see a pull cord prematurely pulling it, a slight twist against the rock pushing it out, or someone stepping on a temp ledge and unweighting it (then it just falls out), and who knows what else. I can even see a wrongful death lawsuit to a manufacturer who knowingly produced such a faulty device as possible. I guess we can bump the thread when the 1st accident happens and discuss it further? *shrug*

[Kuya]

you totally got the point, so many out there now day that do 2 canyons and thinking they are PRO!!!!

but at the same time there is the DISCLAIMER., you just need to read it and use your brain.

to be out there and never had an accident I think you need to have the right mind!

we never been a single time any close to having problems, HE will never wanted to risk to deal with MY MOTHER if something was going to happens to me in a canyon!!!!!

but I was fortunate do do canyons with ONE OF THE BEST canyoneer out there!!!!

100% agree!

[TommyBoy]

I don't use it very often, but I have one made out of 1/2" dowel rod that I coated in varnish. Even with the weight of rope on a 150' rappel it still required a decent tug to free the fiddlestick. They're not for every drop and must be used with caution, double and tripple checking before sending the last man down, but I never felt unsafe while using it. I usually have some one drag the pull rope off to the side too so I don't accidentally snag it and pull it loose when going down.

[ratagonia]

Tom,
Umm, why isn't there a hole in each end of the fiddlestick so you can secure it with a canyon quickdraw and prevent it from ever slipping out of the stone knot? last man down has to remove the quickdraw, but at least they got to watch how the fiddlestick interacts with the rocks/environment while someone is rapping.

A good idea, now under consideration.

Tom

[ratagonia]

I don't use it very often, but I have one made out of 1/2" dowel rod that I coated in varnish. Even with the weight of rope on a 150' rappel it still required a decent tug to free the fiddlestick. They're not for every drop and must be used with caution, double and tripple checking before sending the last man down, but I never felt unsafe while using it. I usually have some one drag the pull rope off to the side too so I don't accidentally snag it and pull it loose when going down.

Toyota and TommyBoy - perhaps you did not notice, but this thread is for people who have never used the FiddleStick to pontificate on how dangerous the whole thing is.

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for people who have actually used it.

Tom

[Deathcricket]

Toyota and TommyBoy - perhaps you did not notice, but this thread is for people who have never used the FiddleStick to pontificate on how dangerous the whole thing is.

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for people who have actually used it.

Tom

x2 - and in the next year we'll start a 3rd thread to discuss accidents and deaths caused by it.

[Slot Machine]

A good idea, now under consideration.

Tom

Why bother?

I've been told (by friendly experts that love the Fiddlestick) that normally everyone raps from a meat anchor, except for the last person, who gets the rare and awesome opportunity to be a stuntman.





Disclaimer: I don't know nothin' about nothin'. I don't research nothin'. I don't practice nothin'. I don't know anyone that knows nothin'. Jus' forget anythin' I said on this thread. Trying to learn anythin' from it will only make you more dummer. I'm kinda embarrassed that I got caught pontificating in front of y'all.

Dupid. Dupid. Me so dupid.

[hesse15]

Toyota and TommyBoy - perhaps you did not notice, but this thread is for people who have never used the FiddleStick to pontificate on how dangerous the whole thing is.

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for people who have actually used it.

Tom

come on Tom pontificate on others is what is going on for decades
i think you need to start growing some beard and mustache ,I think will look nice on you!!!