Thoughts about Canyon Collective?

[jman]

One has to remember that one has to swallow their pride and remember to keep the " greater canyoneering good" in mind. There is a lot anti-Bogley sentiment floating around. And there is a anti-Canyon Collective, Anti-Shane, anti-Tom, etc.

But there are a ton of noobs out there and need help and assistance. It's okay to plug everyone's forum, beta sites, etc. I firmly believe in more information the better. Everyone is going to disagree, but again, people will always cling where they feel the most welcome, less-threatened, and get the most answers (regardless of its outdoor related or not).

[Slot Machine]

but again, people will always cling where they feel the most welcome, less-threatened, and get the most answers (regardless of its outdoor related or not).

Maybe. But probably not.

I think that people go to the forum they prefer based on:

1. Entertainment, in the form of canyoneering eye candy and good stories. And occasional drama.
2. Usefulness, in the form of a community that is helpful at answering questions.
3. Good company, because everyone likes to hang with people they know.

and a distant fourth...

4. An overall feeling of friendliness.

They are all important, but not equally important as implied above. Just my 2 cents.

[jman]

Maybe. But probably not.

I think people go to the forum they prefer based on:

1. Entertainment, in the form of canyoneering eye candy and good stories. And occasional drama.
2. Usefulness, in the form of a community that is helpful at answering questions.
3. Good company, because everyone likes to hang with people they know.

and a distant fourth...

4. An overall feeling of friendliness.

They are all important, but not equally important as implied above. Just my 2 cents.

I agree with most points you made, but....

If you only knew................................


I have received numerous PMs, personal emails, from members and members from other forums telling me the issues that they have with Bogley or its members. I get maybe 2-4 PMs or personal emails a week sent through Bogley to me taking about why this person is such a ass, and why they have to ruin it for everybody else. Or how come people don't respond to outdoor posts, and how come people won't tell them where a certain location is on BLM land, etc. I'm serious! I get a lot of emails about this stuff. And people confide in me because they know I care or at least will respond to them. I'm just a moderator of a few sections and I'm not the admin or owner or bogley, I'm not their dad, I can't resolve personal differences, etc. But that's how I receive it.

In fact Bob, I received a handful of emails about you and your response to the sad cow disease incident. They called you a hypocrite when you posted stuff of the Dante's and wanted help. Yeah yeah... It's the Internet and people need to not take things so seriously. Unfortunately that doesn't happen. And as a facilitator of the forum, I like to encourage positive and a helpful-ness attitude. It's all fine being funny, and being a smart-ass etc. Its fun, I do that all the time. I want to encourage viewership (and repeat-visitors) and increase interest into the diverse forums. I have learned so much from other people about the most random things and canyons, and outdoor related. And I would hate to lose that person from sharing information and having a good time with us due to the negativity or hostility or backlash they perceive in getting if posting.

Perception goes a LONGGGGG way. And it's hard to overcome if they already have a bias.

/soap-box

[Slot Machine]

I get maybe 2-4 PMs or personal emails a week sent through Bogley to me taking about why this person is such a ass, and why they have to ruin it for everybody else.

Bret, easy man, easy. There are lots of rabble rousers around here. What about @Byron, @Deathcricket, hell... @Iceaxe? Why not publicly post some private complaints about them? Don't want them to feel left out.

BTW, I like them all. And I don't think they are ruining anything. Shoot, I might doze off without them.

I'm also interested in Bogley's success. Don't worry. Like I said, I'll play nice.

[Deathcricket]

*Ears perk up*

Oh it's this thread again. *yawn* Yeah Tom complained loudly to the mods several times about me. I think the best way I got under his skin was purposefully misquoting him. Which is funny because the stuff I misquoted him on was always nicer than the stuff he actually said.

There, now you are not alone. Us bros gotta stick together. Maybe we should change this thread to our favorite ragers, that would be interesting! My favorites are the ones where they say "I quit, I'm back, now I seriously quit, ok now I'm back, and quit again". Like they are soo important and the world revolves around them or something. Just like I'm sure they are constantly browsing this thread and probably dieing to respond.

In the end, I agree it's just about where people feel more comfortable posting. And once people start getting called "dangerous" and myriads of other imagined offenses they won't be that comfortable posting. Here is a jem of an example. http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?64599 Although it's not as good because the offender went back and edited his posts after his meds kicked in. But if you look at people's quotes you can still make out clearly what was said. I'm sure at his new forum forum he's on his best behavior right now, but with an abrasive personality of this magnitude, it's only a matter of time before the cracks start poking through and his true personality kicks in. Patience my friend.

[Scott P]

Back to the original topic, both sites seem pretty different to me. Canyon Collective is for canyoneering only and has a section that members can add beta. It's more like summitpost.org than Bogley.

Bogley is a forum only with lots of stuff, but with a sub forum of canyoneering.

Other than they both have a canyoneering forum, the sites seem pretty much apples and oranges to me.

[rockgremlin]

Bret, easy man, easy. There are lots of rabble rousers around here. What about @Byron , @Deathcricket , hell... @Iceaxe ?

pissed that I didn't make the list...

[Iceaxe]

If you guys haven't figured it out yet this is really little more than Yahoo Canyons finally parking their dinosaur and moving into a modern forum. CC is more about the death of Yahoo Canyons then anything else. Yahoo will starve and die unless Ram decides to keep feeding it. Same as the Yahoo Canyoneer forum did when we moved it to Bogley so many years ago. CC was described to me by one of those involved as "son of Yahoo Canyons".

I have expected the Yahoo move for a long time, my only responce would be "what took you so long"?


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Slot Machine]

pissed that I didn't make the list...

Lol, no disrespect! I didn't want to step on your toes, since I don't know you that well. You know, didn't want to rouse any rabbles.

From this point forward, @rockgremlin shall be know as an official rabble rouser!

[burley]

For those new to the game... The ACA, Summit Post and a few others provided crowd source beta of various quality for years. This is nothing new. The only thing that would make this time any different is if routes not currently on everyones radar begin to show up. Retracing route descriptions that have been public knowledge for years is no big gain for the canyon community.

You're right, maybe not a big gain for the canyon community as a whole; however I think the format of CC makes it stand out. And for those (including myself) that aren't as familiar with canyon locations, ratings etc, and don't have thousands of canyons somewhere in our brain, it is a big gain. Having a searchable database linked to a pretty slick map is in my opinion a big difference, and a positive one (though the search feature is not yet enabled, it is supposedly in the works and has huge potential).

When I don't already know where I' headed next, I foresee CC as my first stop for selecting a canyon and where said canyon is. Of course, I'll read the beta on CC as well, but I expect I'll continue to go back to the beta sources I already use (and trust) before heading out. Of course, all this may change as CC grows and or my trust in the beta found there changes.

I have been throwing ideas around in my head for years about how to centralize/standardize canyon info (not just beta). For me, CC has pretty much done what I had hoped to see but was technically not capable of doing. In the end, CC is simply another addition to the many great resources we canyoneers have on the interweb. A fine addition, but not one I expect will be a replacement.

PS - On a philosophical note, I think diversity is important (in all things: opinions, beta, style). So are standards and organization (canyon ratings, ethics, beta). Sometimes these two ideas conflict and it can be a tough balance. Meaningful dialog helps.

[Scott P]

As someone supplying beta to such a site I would be concerned with my legal responsibility. My biggest fear would be are you protected from a lawsuit? Most beta peddlers are set up as an LLC, which basically allows someone to bring litigation against the company but not the individual. Which really makes litigation a dead end as the LLC is usually worth very little, maybe a few dollars in a bank account and a computer. If someone brings legal action against you personally it could get very expensive without the LLC firewall. And they're not going to go after Dan, he don't own a pot to piss in.

Does this apply to Bogley as well?

[rockgremlin]

From this point forward, @rockgremlin shall be know as an official rabble rouser!

I always thought it was @$$hole.


I'm kinda the between man...I have friends on the Yahoo Group, Bogley and CC. Every time I'm out with one, they always tell me "don't go telling Bogley" or "don't go telling Shane" or "don't tell the Yahoos on the Yahoo Group." And I always respect those wishes, but I just think it's comical how there's such a petty high-school girl mentality that exists. Hopefully we can all get together and have a threesome.

[Everett]

The most popular thread on Canyon Collective is on Bogley?

[Deathcricket]

The most popular thread on Canyon Collective is on Bogley?

Wut? Doubt the nazi mods on CC would allow a subject about Bogley there. Did you mean to say the most popular thread on Bogley is about CC?

[Byron]

Wow man, this is pretty epic! I'm completely clueless on all this stuff. Probably because I haven't personally met anyone around here yet to hear all the high school type drama...Hell, I guess we never do really grow up, eh?

Perhaps I'll join that other site and spew a bunch of my classy observations and wonderful personality? HAR! HAR! I'll go check out the other site for giggles, but I can't imagine any place better than Bogley...this place rocks! Humor, my friends, is good for the soul!