Thoughts about Canyon Collective?

[Kuya]

Just curious to hear your thoughts about the new website Canyon Collective. It seems like it is a bit like Bogley, just that it is limited to Canyoneering info and beta only IMHO.

http://canyoncollective.com/

[2065toyota]

I've read a bit and posted 1 report on there. I'm excited to see how it evolves. It shouldn't have the drama that Bogley has, but drama is fun sometimes also

[Iceaxe]

It shouldn't have the drama that Bogley has,

Hahaha.... how do you figure? One of the biggest drama queens in canyoneering is running the show. And I see they plan to run a tight ship which always creates major drama when a post gets moderated.

I've been part of three canyon forum's over the past 15 years. When they start out they are small, warm and fuzzy, made up mostly of friends. As they grow and gather a large diverse base and following they become more difficult to manage with a wider range of views. Its just the nature of the beast.

I'm just really surprised to see one of the biggest supporters of show-don't-tell switching over to spraying beta.... welcome to the dark side.... hahaha... That should be a good thing. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as too much canyon beta.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Deathcricket]

Ice pretty much nailed my thoughts exactly. I think they always had a problem with control, or more specifically lack of control and censorship. So them making their own environment that they have complete control over is a good thing. To each his own and I wish them well. My only regret is they didn't make an "I'm leaving, please delete all my posts, and refund my bogley membership" thread. Those are my favorite!

I will miss Dan's pics though. Guy was an extremely talented photographer.

[jman]

It will be good to have a centralized canyoneering place for the world, as far as beta goes. It will be good for newbs as it grow in content.

Bogley is different because really anything goes and you can post things are not canyon-related in a canyon thread and be a racist too (inside joke). I kid I kid.

Yahoo has LOT of archived beta and TRs, and Bogley has 7+ years of TRs and discussion. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a change in the format. Such as the forum aspect, but as stickies get posted, they get ignored and take up a space. A web base format along with forum would be good. The web format could include tips by members on various outdoor things and they stay on the page compared to being pushed down further and further into oblivion as new posts show up.

I have a ton of ideas on how to adapt and make Bogley stay fresh and active while keeping the "anything goes" feel (with user discretion and decency of course), which makes people come back for more. (I will be speaking with Sombeech and Accadacca over dinner jn March and talk about a few things to improve the site and keep active!

As Tom once said that stuck with me "Man shall not live by canyoneering alone". Bogley is great cause there are some many random threads (outdoors and not) that we get involved in.

[Iceaxe]

It will be good to have a centralized canyoneering place for the world, as far as beta goes.

Its good in theory.... but it will never happen... the rest of the world already has their beta sites and forums, so we are talking North America....

Yahoo will still keep it's fans, Bogley will keep theirs, ACA still has a following. Crowd Source beta has a lot of problems, the biggest being reliability and safety, so guide books and website's with reliable beta will still flourish.

People will check out the new and shiny, but in the end they will return to where they feel the most comfortable, where they find entertainment and where their friends are. CC isn't new, its just the canyoneering section of outdoorposts that had been repackaged and under new management. If it was all about bells and whistles yahoo would have been dead 10 years ago, but it just keeps trucking along.

YMMV


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[jman]

Its good in theory.... but it will never happen... the rest of the world already has their beta sites and forums, so we are talking North America....

Yahoo will still keep it's fans, Bogley will keep theirs, ACA still has a following. Crowd Source beta has a lot of problems, the biggest being reliability and safety, so guide books and website's with reliable beta will still flourish.

People will check out the new and shiny, but in the end they will return to where they feel the most comfortable, where they find entertainment and where their friends are. CC isn't new, its just the canyoneering section of outdoorposts that had been repackaged and under new management. If it was all about bells and whistles yahoo would have been dead 10 years ago, but it just keeps trucking along.

YMMV


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Hmm, yea good point.

[rockgremlin]

Ice pretty much nailed my thoughts exactly. I think they always had a problem with control, or more specifically lack of control and censorship. So them making their own environment that they have complete control over is a good thing. To each his own and I wish them well. My only regret is they didn't make an "I'm leaving, please delete all my posts, and refund my bogley membership" thread. Those are my favorite!

I will miss Dan's pics though. Guy was an extremely talented photographer.

Ransom's runnin' the show? Pfffft! He doesn't have time to run a canyoneering forum.

He already has one of the most ass-kickinist photography websites in www.Danransom.com, so it sounds to me like for him to start a canyon forum is just a blatant effort to snub the canyoneering section of Bogley.

Either that or Ram has commissioned him to create an alternate canyoneering website that aims to do to Bogley what Bogley did to the Yahoo canyons forum. Payment in the form of beta, LOL.

Whatever the case, I can't figure out how you people find the time to visit/post to/administer more than 1 website. It's hard enough for me to troll the General Discussion thread and still have time leftover to eat.

[jman]

Ransom's runnin' the show? Pfffft! He doesn't have time to run a canyoneering forum.

He already has one of the most ass-kickinist photography websites in www.Danransom.com, so it sounds to me like for him to start a canyon forum is just a blatant effort to snub the canyoneering section of Bogley.

Either that or Ram has commissioned him to create an alternate canyoneering website that aims to do to Bogley what Bogley did to the Yahoo canyons forum. Payment in the form of beta, LOL.

Whatever the case, I can't figure out how you people find the time to visit/post to/administer more than 1 website. It's hard enough for me to troll the General Discussion thread and still have time leftover to eat.

Haha, the latter for sure.

Well, Tom has jumped ship it seems too.

The more time I think about the implications of another canyoneering forum (more to come in the future no doubt) is which ones will noobs turn to? Which ever which feels the most welcoming. Slot Machines flagellation of levifackrell was pretty harsh - he's probably not coming back. But he's apologized since then, but the damage is done.

And of course we can't forget the whoe Summit (Bill) and Nick's exit. Then they recruited via PM to members here to join Backcountrypost.

Man... So much drama. But there is definitely an axe to grind. An eternal ax. It's funny though, sure it's sad people leave but they are welcome backs anytime and we don't automatically parse links that have CC or Backcountrypost to pics of dog poo (like another forum has done). Ha ha Lol

Anyways, your last comment of snub seems right at the superficial level.
However, CC has been in the making since 2009. The purpose was to have to a centralized, standardized forum for us North American canyoneers.

[Deathcricket]

Naw naw didn't mean to say he (Dan) was running the show. Just meant to say he's the one I'm going to miss.

I do have his blog bookmarked but I rarely visit it.

I think it's Tom and Ram's forum isn't it? Which is kinda weird when you think about it because a significant amount of Tom's posts are in the political forum. So to make a new website sans politics seems kinda weird to me, like outside his interests. *shrug*

[hank moon]

It's hard enough for me to troll the General Discussion thread and still have time leftover to eat.

finally, the truth

[Slot Machine]

Levi ... is probably not coming back.

[rockgremlin]

Anyways, your last comment of snub seems right at the superficial level.

Hehe...just the way I like it.

I can bust Dan's balls b'cuz I know him, and have been out with him on several occasions. It's all in fun. I miss him too, and I hope to see more of him around -- even if it's in the form of snubbing Bogley or busting my chops. I have a ton of respect and admiration for the guy, just wish he'd stay put long enough for me to do another canyon or two with him. Same goes for Ram and Tom for that matter.

[blueeyes]

Do you always eat at Olive Garden? Or only buy your clothes from JC Penny? Variety is a good thing. I like this forum, I like the new ones. All three offer something similar but different.

[rockgremlin]

Do you only buy your clothes from JC Penny?

Yes.

[blueeyes]

Yes.

This is explains a lot.

[BW123]

Hahaha.... how do you figure? One of the biggest drama queens in canyoneering is running the show. And I see they plan to run a tight ship which always creates major drama when a post gets moderated.

I've been part of three canyon forum's over the past 15 years. When they start out they are small, warm and fuzzy, made up mostly of friends. As they grow and gather a large diverse base and following they become more difficult to manage with a wider range of views. Its just the nature of the beast.

I'm just really surprised to see one of the biggest supporters of show-don't-tell switching over to spraying beta.... welcome to the dark side.... hahaha... That should be a good thing. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as too much canyon beta.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

I wouldn't over-think it too much Shane. It is a 'evenly-moderated' forum. If someone doesn't like their personal attacks being moderated, then they can always find another forum like Bogley. It was created as a canyon-specific forum that would contain reliable and entertaining information, presented in a consistent and appealing manner.

K

[Kuya]

After using and contributing to Canyon Collective for a couple of weeks now, I am finding it to be very nice. I really like the layout and the standardization of the beta! One question I wonder about is what will this kind of site do to those people who are sellers of beta? I guess time will tell.

[Iceaxe]

One question I wonder about is what will this kind of site do to those people who are sellers of beta? I guess time will tell.

As a beta peddler my experience is it actually increases sales. I have several theories on why this occurs. But bottomline... the more information floating around, the more people pick up the sport, the more sales increase.

For those new to the game... The ACA, Summit Post and a few others provided crowd source beta of various quality for years. This is nothing new. The only thing that would make this time any different is if routes not currently on everyones radar begin to show up. Retracing route descriptions that have been public knowledge for years is no big gain for the canyon community.

As someone supplying beta to such a site I would be concerned with my legal responsibility. My biggest fear would be are you protected from a lawsuit? Most beta peddlers are set up as an LLC, which basically allows someone to bring litigation against the company but not the individual. Which really makes litigation a dead end as the LLC is usually worth very little, maybe a few dollars in a bank account and a computer. If someone brings legal action against you personally it could get very expensive without the LLC firewall. And they're not going to go after Dan, he don't own a pot to piss in.

My concern as a recreational canyoneer with regards to crowd sourced beta would be the quality of the beta, who is supplying the beta, who is accountable for the accuracy of the beta and other general safety concerns from too many cooks in the kitchen.

One other thing to consider.... and this viewing the subject through my rose colored seller glasses.... all the peddlers of beta that I know of use the money to increase their database with new routes that are not current public knowledge. So currently if you want new stuff to show up you might consider supporting those that actually bring the routes to the public. /end sales pitch

[ratagonia]

... all the peddlers of beta that I know of use the money to increase their database with new routes that are not current public knowledge. So currently if you want new stuff to show up you might consider supporting those that actually bring the routes to the public. /end sales pitch

Thank you Shane. Very nice of you to plug my site and business.

Tom