Canyoneering 101 Class Suggestions?

[Sombeech]

From an instructional point of view, students usually do better when they can check certain boxes from a master list to put in their portfolio, such as

• XXXX I have a helmet
• XXXX I have a harness
• I do not have a rope
• XXXX I have a wetsuit
• I do not have _________

Stuff like that. And then when certain fields have been checked or completed, this is somewhat self assuring that they are moving in the right direction, they are ready for the next steps because they have taken the responsible prerequisites, they can feel some comfort they are on the right path at least and would like to progress to the next steps. Then again I am in no way qualified to suggest how this sport should be instructed, I'm only relating a successful instructor / student template.

Just let us know what bogley can do to help facilitate

[Iceaxe]

From an instructional point of view, students usually do better when they can check certain boxes from a master list to put in their portfolio

I really like this approach.

Knots

• Water Knot
• Over hand
• Figure 8
• Retreaded Figure 8 (Flemmish bend)

Not a huge list of knots, just the 3 or 4 needed to get started safely.


Rappel Device

• Tube style
• Figure 8
• Stitch plate

Noob's should have a basic understanding of all three types.

Yada, Yada

An on-line course where you could check off each topic as you do it would be primo (but might also be more work then you want to get involved in).

[Sombeech]

An on-line course where you could check off each topic as you do it would be primo (but might also be more work then you want to get involved in).

Lots of ways to do this, you folks just give us the data you want on the list/form and we'll find a way to place a checklist here, and/or a downloadable or printable form.

[Deathcricket]

Lots of ways to do this, you folks just give us the data you want on the list/form and we'll find a way to place a checklist here, and/or a downloadable or printable form.

Maybe a new type of sticky too? Like a common noobs Q&A thread. He (Jman) did a cool video about Imlay pothole escapes I must have watched 100 times before doing Imlay myself. I was so nervous that my team would get stuck but it ended up being really easy and trivial once we got to it. But without watching that video I probably would have left it off my list for fear of the unknown. But he also has a cool vid on adding friction for a z rap. We always get questions about wetsuits (ice could probably head that one up), then we could do one on different types of knots (tom had a pretty cool demo around here someplace). Anyways i think it could come together probably just blending the info that is out there but maybe in a more cohesive manner. Part of that could be a "checklist" like jman is saying of stuff to learn and prepare for. He's already been dropping awesome stuff all over IMO, but maybe it just needs an index and central location. :)

[Sombeech]

Maybe a new type of sticky too? Like a common noobs Q&A thread. ..... Anyways i think it could come together probably just blending the info that is out there but maybe in a more cohesive manner. Part of that could be a "checklist" like jman is saying of stuff to learn and prepare for. He's already been dropping awesome stuff all over IMO, but maybe it just needs an index and central location. :)

Sure, and in my opinion, putting a [How To] prefix on these types of instructional threads makes it really easy to find tutorial stuff.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/forumdis...refixid=How_To )

Here are the How To Canyoneering threads so far, easy to get to by either clicking one thread prefix that has the "How To" on it, or scroll to the bottom and filter the threads by a certain prefix.



We could just make a sticky thread that links to this filter possibly, for those who aren't familiar with the Prefix filter. Similar to how we made the Canyoneering Trip Reports link in the "Quick Links" sticky: http://www.bogley.com/forum/forumdis...id=Trip_Report

So that would cover the tutorial threads that already exist, and more to come - if they put it in the How To prefix (tutorial here - http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...-and-Filtering

And for the Canyoneering 101 courses, or skills and gear checklist, or whatever you folks would like to come up with, we can have a thread dedicated to that. Maybe something as simple as an embedded Google Doc Form with the radio buttons or check boxes, then somebody in charge of adding criteria to check off?

Up to you. Just tell us what you want, make sure you've hypothetically walked through the steps of filling it out, how user friendly it would be, how practical it is, things like that so we can build it right the first time.

[jman]

Yeah...you guys are awesome! You just took off with the idea that I'm visualizing. Thanks for the handful of PMs for encouragement and support guys!

Thankfully, it's my Friday at work and so I took some of your ideas and put them in my draft.

Hopefully tomorrow night or by Saturday ill have it uploaded by then for you guys to check it out.

[jman]

Alright, so here we go. I have more information, but this if the first outline that I produced.

KEEP IN MIND: this is not finalized in anyway, and this is through my eyes of a system where it's standardized for the beginner. This is just a piece of paper that they can carry and make notes on as they prepare themselves for their first live instructional class.

My idea is to let the user be the one who decides on where he gets that live training. Not me. This is essentially a primer, but more specific than just quick anecdotal basics of the sport (if that makes sense).

And again, the idea is to let the community help and contribute, as I don't have the best ideas. I just like to get 'em started .

Well here is Outline1, in it's very basic format. I'll paste it here, rather than a document, so everyone can view it, compared to those who can't download documents at work (like me).

One last thing: The purpose of this entire thing is so that we can create a easy document/PDF that's easily distributable (which includes pictures), so that people who would like to have a "community class" throughout their towns can do so with ease. But the case in point is, standardization! There really isn't a 101 for Canyoneering, go figure. It seems like it's a "hey, come with us canyoneering and let's see what happens." And the end results are injuries, broken bones, people getting lost, people going in underprepared for tough canyons, etc. I digress, Just hand these out, and teach em about the basics. Easy, and a lot of fun...and probably a lot of work in some cases.


Canyoneering 101
---------------------------------


WARNING! Canyoneering is an inherently dangerous backcountry sport. You can be seriously injured or die. There is no substitution for personal instruction in canyoneering. You should hire professional guide/instructor to learn about the hands-on aspect of Canyoneering. This Canyoneering 101 is to be used a "starter" or "complement" to live training.




So what is Canyoneering?


[Explanation in a nutshell; followed by Video presentation/slideshow (youtube vid perhaps?)




Module1:
Essential Canyoneering Gear:


CLIMBING HARNESS w/BELAY LOOP
[Connects you to the rope; allows you to safely rappel (go down) obstacles and vertical walls]
-comfortable, and un-complicated to put on and off.
-adjustability; needs to be put over shorts, wetsuits, drysuits,
-not too many gear loops; 2 minimum for gear. Too many can get rope, leashes, and gear tangled.
-EXPERTS: can use a webbing harness (AKA swiss sweat) to save on weight for canyons that have few, short rappels


CARABINER (AKA "biner" pronounced 'bee-ner')
["D" or oval shapped metal links with a gate, which allows the ropes to "connect" you to your harness; useful for anchors]
-Wire-gate biners should not be used. Screw-gate or spring-gate are to be used instead. (Show pic differences)
-many varieties; please don't use Home Depot or Wal-mart biners. They are unsafe and unreliable. Buy ones from trusted rock-climbing or canyoneering stores. See link below of where to buy
-measured in kN (kilonewtons) and are listed on the 'biner. 1 kN can hold up 225 lbs. Most biners are rated between 7-14.
-used to build natural anchors (discussed below)
-used to rappel
-useful to create knot blocks (discussed below)
-useful to connect gear to harness gear loops
*NOTE* a minimum of 2 (TWO) carabiners should be used per person/per canyon. IE. 2 people = 4 carabiners (minimum)


DESCENDING DEVICE
[Specially designed device that adds a friction point between the rope, you, and your "braking hand" (see below)
-*NOTE* VITAL for canyoneering. 2 devices per person/per canyon. (1 used as a backup, or 2nd rappel device to add more friction)
-FRICTION is necessary for you to SAFELY rappel any length of vertical cliff.
-There are varietes of descending devices (which allow for light-weighted canyoneers and big-boned canyoneers. The primary reason for the varying devices are (1) Friction, (2) different uses for rappelling, stopping, etc.
-There are 3 TYPES of DESCENDING DEVICES:
- Stitch Plate (original descender)
- Plate/Tube Style (similar to original but designed to disperse heat better)
- Figure 8s (most popular device, not necessarily best for canyoneering. Allows for a smooth feed of the rope, yet twists the rope more than any other descender.)


ROPE
[There are 2 rope variations used by the canyoneering and rock-climbing communities - Dynamic and Static. Canyoneering primarily uses static.]
- Dynamic Ropes, are primarily used by rock-climbers and are designed to "absorb" a fall and allow for a bounce, which is typical in climbing.
- Static Ropes, are primarily used by canyoneers and are designed to be "no stretch", which allows for lighter ropes while safely descending
-*NOTE* Bouncing on ropes is STRONGLY DISCOURAGED. This puts tremendous pressure on the rope properties/strength as well as the anchor in which the rope is attached to (IE trees, bushes, rocks, bolts).
- Rope Properties
- Nylon
- Polyester
- Dyneema, Technora (allows for rope protection against sharp objects. Same fiberous material as Kevlar. This doesn't make ropes invincible. It makes the ropes last longer)
- 1 Rope will not last a lifetime. They are expendable, as in they get used, abused, and dragged over sharp rocks and edges.
- Before each descent, the user is responsible to examine the rope for abrasions, "core shots", and other cuts or defects in the rope.
- 9mm (or 9.2mm) ropes should be used when begining to descend canyons.
- EXPERTS: can use smaller ropes such as 8.3mm ropes (which allows for a lighter load) HOWEVER, more caution is needed as there will be less friction initally when rappelling.
- Common lengths for ropes to be used in the sport are 100ft (30 meters), 120ft(36 meters), 200ft (60 meters), and a uncommon 300ft (91 meters).
- *NOTE* Depending on numerous factors, multiple ropes can be used to speed up or enhance the canyoneering experience.
- 2 METHODS are used to setup up the rappel with the Rope:
- Double-stranded (explain differences, pics too)
- Pull-cord (explain differences, pics too)


ROPE - PULL CORD
[a smaller(6mm) static (preferred) rope is used which attaches to the RAPPELLING ROPE, which after the party has descended the obstacle allows the group to retrieve the rappelling rope and continue on down the canyon. Useful because it allows less rope (IE weight) to be carried through the canyon.
- "biner block"
- Double-fisherman
- EDK or European Death-knot
- clove hitch, and triple clove hitch (for brand-new ropes)


WEBBING
[flat piece of fiber materials which allows the canyoneer to "rig" an "anchor point".
- orginally made from cotton, but now made with stronger fibers such as nylon (doesn't absorb water), Dyneema and Kevlar.
- Variable sizes in width; but most common for canyoneering is 1". 1/2" are also acceptable but should be used by EXPERTS.
- *NOTE* Each canyoneer as a rule of thumb, should carry at least 50feet of webbing per canyon. Always assume you are going to the canyon to build and rebuild anchors. [more later]
- plan on replacing a LOT of webbing anchors with new material. ALWAYS Inspect webbing (if left from previous canyoneers around natural anchors), and replace if not brand-new. Canyons will destroy the strength and properties of the webbing by UV light, repeating of wet to dry; and sand abrasion.
- WEBBING is very expendable. Do not be hesitant to replace it (regardless of conditions; IE fatigue; light)Number #1 Goal in Canyons is EVERYONES SAFETY!


BACKPACK:
[small backpacks or camelbacks or fannypacks will NOT DO!! You need a full-size backpack to carry your harness, biners, ropes, gear, helmet, gloves, food, and water for approach to the canyon and hike back to your vehicle or tent]
- different types of backpacks.
- Ones that keep water out
- Ones that allow water in, but have grommets (or purposefully placed holes) to drain the water.
- Gear, or food that cannot get wet, need to be contained in DRYBAGS.
- comfortable, and typically one that doesn't have a lot of external compartments for gear or things to get snagged on.
- Can use smaller backpacks for small canyons (2-4hrs tops!) with small rappels.


HELMET:
[canyoneering goes from a top to bottom; EVERY canyoneer needs a helmet to protect from falling rocks (at rappels), from waterfalls, and or mis-steps or trips over the many obstacles in the canyon. A bicycle helmet will do as well]
- snug
- comfortable (think, wearing this half-day or all day through the canyon)


GLOVES:
[the preferred method of rappelling is not use gloves, but gloves are helpful to keep hands warm and to absorb 'some' heat while on rappel. *NOTE* Should be taught in person for correct style for rappelling.]


ROPE MAINTENANCE and RAPPELING TIPS
- always inspect before canyon usage.
- Don't step on ropes.
- If wet, hang out to dry when home and allow to dry completely. Don't allow "rope rot" due to negligence - decreases rope strenth (seen or not-seen).
- While rappelling, do NOT allow a rope to scrape or abrase sideways.
- Adjust rope position after a large group of rappellers (4-6 people) to change points of abrasion on the rope. Think preservation.
- Think preservation!
- Extend natural anchors with webbing or find a new anchor point, so "Rope Grooves" do not appear on ROCKS!!! (explained below)
- Safe to use a pressure washer from at least 2feet away to get dirt out of rope.



MODULE 2:
KNOTS:
[ESSENTIAL FOR CANYONEERING] (everyone in the canyon party should know how to tie these fundamental knots)
- TERMINOLOGY
- Loop; a loop in the rope or rather a 1/2 twist in the rope
- Bight - like a loop, but without the 1/2 twist
- End; as it sounds, either end of the rope


TYPES OF KNOTS:
- OVERHAND KNOTS
- ties ropes and webbing together to create loops which allows you to "sling" it around natural anchors (rocks, trees, etc.)
- Overhand on a bight
- Water Knot
- FIGURE 8
- Figure 8 on a Bight (Ties the rope directly the harness)
- Ties two ropes together
- EDK
- Double-fisherman
- HITCHES
- secures the rope to various objects (descender device, rope, biners)
- Clove
- Munter


ANCHORS:
[Points of contacts that secures the rope as we rappel, "downclimb", and assist others in either being lowered, raised, or rescue situations].
- NATURAL ANCHORS
- trees, rocks, chockstones, holes, arches, etc.


ANCHORS, or NON-NATURAL ANCHORS, or ARTIFICIAL ANCHORS
- man-made anchors such as Bolts, Pitons, deadmen anchor (anchor buried in the ground), bags filled with sand AKA "pot-shots", or sandtrap, Watertrap


RETRIEVABLE ANCHORS
- anchors that as soon as last rappeller is down, pulls on another rope/cord to pull down the "anchor", which leaves no gear behind. When this is done in a canyon. It is called "GHOSTING" (more later on that).\


CONTIGENCY ANCHORS
- a backup anchor. (needs more explanation)


-*NOTES* ANCHORS need to be chosen very wisely. It goes without saying, that your life depends upon these anchors.
- WHERE, determine the best spot to retrieve the rope if using a pull-cord to avoid instances when the rope can get stuck in a crack. Avoid Rope grooves.
- HoW, how are you going to make the anchor? around a bush, tree, or digging and burying the anchor, etc.

- WHAT, what are you going to build it with? sand, water, webbing, a "meat" anchor (human anchor or human belay). Also considering, how much webbing you have left in your group and how many more rappels to go, or other obstacles).




BELAYS:
[secures safety of the canyoneers as they rappel or overcome/downclimb obstacles; a "fail-safe" if you will)


[add more stuff]


Module 3:
CHOOSING YOUR CANYONS
- First Thing's FIRST - Everyone's safety!!! Do not attempt a canyon until after "live" instruction. Learning about it online or this basic 101, will not prepare you completely for your first canyon, or second, or third. etc..

- KNOW THE CANYON RATINGS!
- RATING SYSTEM DESCBRIBED BELOW


- CANYON TERMINOLOGY:
- CFS, LDC, LUC, hydralogics (Class C only), pothole, Keeper-pothole, rappel/abseil, ascend, chockstone, dryfall, logjams, Class C,

- What is Beta?


- Where do I obtain Beta for Canyons? [See References below]


- AFter you obtain the beta for the canyons, make sure you know how to read a MAP!


- Map Basics


Understanding Canyon Drainages
- Why is this Important?
- Flash Floods, Snow-melt, etc.
- Know points of escape within the canyon on your Map.
-*NOTE* Some canyons have NO ESCAPE. That's why careful planning, and weather considerations play hand-in-hand. But the reward is worth it.
- Have someone who has canyoneering experience to "guide" or "lead" you through a basic, simple canyon.
- Need to develop confidence, and "thinking" so that you can conquer your anxiety for your first rappel. Also knowing that it gets easier and better with each sesquent rappel. You do NOT want to "space out" when you reach your first rappel and forget all the basics of anchor, and knot building, and rappelling. That's why it is IMPERATIVE to get "LIVE" instruction before you journey out.


TOOLS to assist your canyon adventure
- GPS (but also knowing, how to use it is just as important ;) )
- EMERGENCY CONTACT and ITINERARY paper left in car (or at trailhead) so if a emergency arises, Search and Rescue teams, and family members will know exactly what the intended route is. Think Aron Ralson. Didn't tell ANYONE. Lucky to be alive after 5days!



Other Modules to Implement:

MOVING THROUGH THE CANYON
- STEMMING, JUMPING, SLIDING, DOWNCLIMBING, CHIMNEYING, etc.
- HUMAN LADDERS or HUMAN STEPS
- ADVANCED: CONQUERING POT-HOLES
- backpacks
- pot-shots
- hooks
- entriers
- happy stick
- SPOTTING
- MODELING, having the strongest/most experienced climber go first and experience the obstacle then provide instructions to the rest of the group.
- SEQUENCING, knowing who is the strongest, weakest, scared, fatigued members of your group and sequencing them through the rappels, obstacles in order to assist other members of the group, which also adds security and self-confidence to everyone.
- RAPPELLING BASICS
- Locking Off
- Adding friction.
- Guided Rappels (maybe?)
- Passing a Knot
-ASCENDING A ROPE
- Prusik
- Handled Ascenders


REFERENCES AND LINKS:

GUIDE SERVICES:
Moab: Desert Highlights
Moab Desert Adventures
Cliffs and Canyons
Red River Adventures


Zion: Zion Adventure Company
Zion Rock Guides
Red Desert Adventure


North Wash and Lake Powell areas: North Wash Outfitters


www.darkhorseleadership.com


Canyon Beta:
Canyoneeringusa.com
Canyoneering.net
Candition.com
Climb-utah.com
AJroadtrips.com
Bluugnome.com
Canyoncollective.com
Canyoneeringnorthwest.com
Ucanyon.com
math.utah.edu/~sfolias/minislot
toddshikingguide.com
zionnational-park.com/zion-national-park-canyoneering.htm



PS - There are probably many errors, and typos, and things I switched around to make it display here correctly. Things in [brackets] and (parathensis) are notes and definitions and explanations.

Enjoy the novel???

[Canyonbug]

Thanks for including us in there

Your list looks all inclusive and covers a lot of what is taught in our first day (class room portion) of the Technical Canyoneering Course.

One cautionary note, looks like you are getting into teaching anchoring and rappelling basics. Just be cautious with liability. If you are not insured and try to teach people rappelling and how to set ropes, be sure not to have accidents and make sure they know exactly what they are doing when they leave.

[jman]

Thanks for including us in there

Your list looks all inclusive and covers a lot of what is taught in our first day (class room portion) of the Technical Canyoneering Course.

One cautionary note, looks like you are getting into teaching anchoring and rappelling basics. Just be cautious with liability. If you are not insured and try to teach people rappelling and how to set ropes, be sure not to have accidents and make sure they know exactly what they are doing when they leave.

Thanks! I know it doesn't look pretty in this format. I need to get the PDF figured and uploaded here, which includes pics and such.

You are exactly right with liability, which I am attempting to steering clear of, and placing it on you guys (guide services since you have insurance, which then you guys put back on to the user.). It's a win win. You guys profit from the exposure but more importantly it teaches that there is no substitution for live training, and having a professional guide them initially. I mean this isn't soccer and you just kick a ball around and suddenly you're good ;)

This primer, if you will, gives people a chance to know before hand of what to expect and know what's all involved in the sport, without paying, and to see if it is something they want to pursue further. It's just a inclusive introductory class, free of charge. I have seen smaller intro "classes online" but they are very vague. IE. "need a harness, carabiners, rope, and helmet". This provides more information as many will wonder, well what harness? What ropes, etc. BUT it makes it explicitly clear that this is just a REFERENCE and that they should hire guide services (or a professional guide/ veteran canyoneer, etc.). Is this making sense?

There is still lots of changes and modifications that need to be made, and more guide, beta, references, services listed.

[Deathcricket]

Yeah dude, I like where you are going with this. When I got into this sport there was hardly any info and it had to be searched out. This could be a one stop shopping resource to get the basics going.

[Iceaxe]

One cautionary note, looks like you are getting into teaching anchoring and rappelling basics. Just be cautious with liability. If you are not insured and try to teach people rappelling and how to set ropes, be sure not to have accidents and make sure they know exactly what they are doing when they leave.

Written instruction is much different than teaching hands on with regards to liability. Which is why guide book authors don't get into lawsuit's. Add a disclaimer, add a warning, and you are pretty much protected by freedom of speech and freedom of the press.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[jman]

Yeah dude, I like where you are going with this. When I got into this sport there was hardly any info and it had to be searched out. This could be a one stop shopping resource to get the basics going.

Thanks! Precisely, your story (among others) is why I would like to have something like this come to fruition. Now making it a reality....that's something different. ;) At the very least, it provides links and references of where to obtain more knowledge. Not just "hey, grab a Ace Hardwear rope and you're good to do the subway!" time of mentality.

But hey, I'm having fun while doing it. Thanks for the encourgament.

BTW - I'm very open to thoughts and suggestions.

[jman]

Okay, so I posted the Rough Draft or Outline in the first post, as an attachment.

The formatting should make it MUCH easier to read, than here. Take a look please!
I wish I knew how to make awesome publications, but I can't. I only know basic to intermediate Office 2007 skills. I have pictures that I just can't get right and some formatting issues, so I just removed them for the time being. Any ideas on what software programs I could use?

Thanks again!

[hank moon]

Any ideas on what software programs I could use?

Gold standard: Adobe InDesign - it's pretty common these days due to Adobe's price structuring. A lot of people have it b/c it comes bundled with PHotoshop as part of Adobe Creative Suite - ask around, bet you'll find a friend who has it. Learning curve isn't too bad and output control is fantastic compared to word processors. Good luck on the proj - a worthy objective indeed. If standardization is what you seek, might want to check in with the ACA aka Rich Carlson. His course outlines / skill sets are the de facto standard in use by most guide services, I'd wager.

[ratagonia]

One cautionary note, looks like you are getting into teaching anchoring and rappelling basics. Just be cautious with liability. If you are not insured and try to teach people rappelling and how to set ropes, be sure not to have accidents and make sure they know exactly what they are doing when they leave.

What he said.

It is important to remember the 3 rules of guiding:

1. The students are trying to kill themselves.

2. The students are trying to kill the other students.

3. The students are trying to kill the instructor.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Would be nice to add Zion Mountain School http://www.zionmountainschool.com to your list of training services.

There are quite a few other ones too. Might take a look at:

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/...ing-a-guiding/

Out side Utah there are more, such as around Las Vegas and So Cal.

Klaus Gerhart https://www.facebook.com/KlausGerhart

Parker Simper https://www.facebook.com/parker.simper

Tom

[Sombeech]

A mention of Bogley would be kinda cool since we are a major part of contributing to the structure

[Canyonbug]

What he said.

It is important to remember the 3 rules of guiding:

1. The students are trying to kill themselves.

2. The students are trying to kill the other students.

3. The students are trying to kill the instructor.

Tom

I'm just saying that just because you are in a classroom setting doesn't mean there is no liability. When you start teaching tech skills, if that student leaves there thinking they were taught what they need to know to set an anchor and rappel, that is what the liability standard would be.

I can't remember who posted it or where, but several months ago there was an article posted about a guy who took a girl on a date and took her climbing. She was under the impression that he knew what he was doing. She fell and got injured and sued. He was not a guide, was not insured, was just out teaching someone how to do something.

I like the idea that you have going and the direction you are intending. I am all for anything that would point students our direction.

[burnsdye]

Keep in mind that this is still under development and that I wasn't planning on releasing it just yet, but I am working on a similar Canyoneering 101 guide. It is at http://dyeclan.com/outdoors101/canyoneering101/. I have about 98 out of 157 pages done right now, but it is growing daily. You are welcome to include my content in your guide if you like. Or if you like my format, you are welcome to contribute to mine.
Jeremy

[jman]

Thanks Tom for the links. And thanks canyonbug for the advice as well. I will give inDesign a shot Hank. We use it at work, just need to convince the boss now.

Jeremy I haven't seen it but I will take a look. Credit is due where it's due, and all names will be named for assisting.

Revision 2 should be out soon, with some good content changes and a much better reference section.

The references section will have websites that are established for a number of years, and will be fun for " extended reading". IE people want to know about how canyons get their names, if there has been any accidents or deaths in canyons, Advanced Tech Tips like Toms great page, and a website on how to tie knots, etc.

But like canyonbug said, the liability is a real concern. Thankfully I have a friend who is a personal injury lawyer, and will ask him for advice.

Btw, is that accident/ near miss database in production yet? I haven't heard anything about it yet.