Canyoneering 101 Class Suggestions?

[jman]

Since there is no standard of Canyoneering (It's take what you learn from others) a few friends and I thought of doing a monthly class for free or of very little charge, (just to cover materials) to the community starting in SLC held at a public venue.

There would be a intro presentation of what exactly Canyoneering is, how to get involved, what gear do you need, a few beta resources, names and phone numbers of guides to the different areas, showing the different locations of canyoneering spots, etc.

The goal of this is to bring a somewhat of a standardized process to the community that will help others know how to get into this sport. We could create a standard packet of generalized info that people can take into their communities and have these presentations (SLC, St. George, Provo, cities in California and Washinton, etc.)


I think this would be a great community project, and provide a way for others to get into the sport and ask someone who explicitly knows (or knows how and where to get that information) about Canyoneering questions.

I have a rough draft created and hopefully I can get it uploaded soon, but seeing how the sport has NO standardization - this would be a great project to help benefit us all. Dan Ransom created the new Canyoneering website, which I think is awesome, but it doesn't allow for much discussion like here on Bogley or Yahoo Canyons. Heck, I even got flagged for making a non canyon-related joke the other day about a city :/ ha ha.


Any opinions? Is is worth the trouble? Is this worth it in the end? Would the community enjoy or be a part of something like this? I'm just throwing out ideas.

Oh keep in mind, this is just a 101 class. Not a 201 or 300 class. That's where guides and professional services come in. These monthly classes just provide a start to get others excited about the sport, and meet new people, and see the basics of canyoneering (rope demonstration and other canyoneering demonstrations (potholes, anchor building),epic short vids, and pics would be shared as well).

EDIT: I assumed falsely that American Canyoneers was the new standardizing Canyoneering org. I was wrong, it only deals with Canyon Access.


UPDATE: Download Rough Draft below. It handles the paragraph and formatting better, than posted here (see page 2).

Critique it all you want, please.

[stefan]

. Heck, I even got flagged for making a non canyon-related joke the other day about a city :/ ha ha.

i thought your joke was more on the racial/racist side, personally. i think it'd be inappropriate on any forum

[Sombeech]

Annnnyyyyyyyyhoo not to argue the very unlikely case that jman made a racist joke, but as far as Canyoneering Classes go, I think it's something the community is often in need of.

Maybe it could be set up in Modules or Sections, such as

Module 1 - Gear

1.1 Helmet
1.2 Harness
1.3 Devices
....

Module 2 - Anchors

Module 3 - rappelling

Stemming... and so on.

i think a lot of the veterans would enjoy sharing their experience too. It might be helpful to hold a Tuesday night class, saying tonight we are covering Module 2

Great idea, I'm looking forward to how this pans out.

[jman]

i thought your joke was more on the racial/racist side, personally. i think it'd be inappropriate on any forum

I could see how you would see it that way. Just a joke. Btw Stefan, feel free to PM me, but I've always felt you had a thing against me. I've been through our dialogues recently and that that was interesting. I would like to know what makes me irritate you, or whatever, erc. I'm all ears. And you have admit, my joke was very mild compared to what others say and post here freely...

Anyways I digress...

[Iceaxe]

I don't see a down side to a canyoneering 101 class. I have given a similar class to numerous youth groups over the years with nothing but positive results.

FWIW - I believe American Canyoneers is making a wise choice to steer clear of this at the present time. They are an access group and should work on winning at least one access battle before making an elephant sandwich they will be forced to eat. The elephant sandwich was a major reason for the ACA's downfall. They tried to be all things to all people and failed miserably.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[accadacca]

Great idea, Bogley will back it. I don't see any negatives, all positive.

[jman]

I don't see a down side to a canyoneering 101 class. I have given a similar class to numerous youth groups over the years with nothing but positive results.

FWIW - I believe American Canyoneers is making a wise choice to steer clear of this at the present time. They are an access group and should work on winning at least one access battle before making an elephant sandwich they will be forced to eat. The elephant sandwich was a major reason for the ACA's downfall. They tried to be all things to all people and failed miserably.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Ohhhhh yeah, that's what Wolf was explaining but I forgot that part. Whoops... Thanks for the clarification. It's been a month since I read Wolfs email.

That's true - it would be a huge piece to digest. I didn't think of it in that regards.
I guess I keep thinking of the AC as the all encompassing ACA, which I forgot which it isn't.

[jman]

Annnnyyyyyyyyhoo not to argue the very unlikely case that jman made a racist joke, but as far as Canyoneering Classes go, I think it's something the community is often in need of.

Maybe it could be set up in Modules or Sections, such as

Module 1 - Gear

1.1 Helmet
1.2 Harness
1.3 Devices
....

Module 2 - Anchors

Module 3 - rappelling

Stemming... and so on.

i think a lot of the veterans would enjoy sharing their experience too. It might be helpful to hold a Tuesday night class, saying tonight we are covering Module 2

Great idea, I'm looking forward to how this pans out.

Exactly, you got the idea. Along those lines.

[Iceaxe]

I found you some pre-canyoneering instructions

[penmartens]

I think there are many people doing this type of thing on their own. I know I do this for the GJ area. AJ does this on the Eastern Slope. I believe Rick Thompson does something similar with the Wasatch Mtn Club. Rob is doing something, just read his trip reports.
It might be good to have some standard starting points. Canyoneers of the past have tended to be hard headed eccentric individuals. It might prove difficult to reach a concensus.
It is worth a try. There have been many changes in this sport in the last few years. There are new organizations, new heroes, new websites, new guide services, new techniques. Perhaps, it is possible.
It looks like the Collective has a place for tech tips. I don't know their rules over there, but maybe they would be willing to house the info you are thinking about. Perhaps, Bogley can make that happen also.

Penny

[Deathcricket]

Yeah buddy! I say go for it. I don't think there is a reasonably priced "intro" canyoning class out there. If you were in saint george I could give you some ideas on spots to try and things to teach at each spot. But you probably know of similar places up there to do that. But I would pick a single rap place and do knots, devices, and belaying maybe. Then pick an easy canyon (donut falls?) and do downclimbs, route finding, rope management, etc. Like start off easy and then make it progressively more advanced, pretty soon do a regular Pine Creek/keyhole type canyon as a graduation class.

Anyways, not a lot of good ideas, just wanted to send some encouragement your way, you racist bastage.

Edit: We've been doing something like this in saint george with our Z-crew, but mostly just friends. One thing to really watch out for is noobs conditioning. Something simple like yankee doodle is exhausting for some people. So before we take a new guy on trip we try if possible to take then through yankee doodle. It's got a big rap so you can gauge their fear of heights, some downclimbs so you can see how instructible they are, and a steep exit to gauge fitness level. Plus it is super short so if problems arise you can take your time and not have to camp out. Hopefully something similar in your area.

[jman]

I think there are many people doing this type of thing on their own. I know I do this for the GJ area. AJ does this on the Eastern Slope. I believe Rick Thompson does something similar with the Wasatch Mtn Club. Rob is doing something, just read his trip reports.
It might be good to have some standard starting points. Canyoneers of the past have tended to be hard headed eccentric individuals. It might prove difficult to reach a concensus.
It is worth a try. There have been many changes in this sport in the last few years. There are new organizations, new heroes, new websites, new guide services, new techniques. Perhaps, it is possible.
It looks like the Collective has a place for tech tips. I don't know their rules over there, but maybe they would be willing to house the info you are thinking about. Perhaps, Bogley can make that happen also.

Penny

Thanks for the reply Penny.

Here the thing - most big players will migrate over there and keep the discussion there. And that's totally fine! It's a great website and the sport needs something like is and ill be using it a lot. Bogley has a different feel and I think more approachable environment.

Collective has the big players and I don't play with the big players and have a few times declined trip invites. I have my own selfish reasons. I don't like playing games and what I have I share (with the exception of one canyon in Zion named Black Canyon which is ALL on private property).

Anywho, I have mentioned this idea before but I thought bringing it back up again now could be a good time.

My idea is community driven and supported. I know that lots of individuals have been doing this type of thing. But it would be good for the advancement and protection of the sport if there was a community standard. I don't have all of the ideas, and neither do veterans like Tom or Ram. Sure they know a LOT ( understatement) than me. But I'm young, I have lots of energy and dedication.

Wouldn't it be cool that new local heroes in Idaho, Utah, Arizona and do these meetings. In kaysville for example of where I live, I have met only a handful of people who even know what the sport is. Once I talk to them and show them a few pics on my phone - they are interested and some ask to join us and guide for them, and some are like "are never even thought that was possible! rappeling waterfalls?! awesome!". anyways, to share it with this peoppe who are excited about the sport who want to share it with others can, and have the community support and backing.

They can present it in their flavor, their personality but the same techniques and introduction and links would all be the same making our community stronger and bigger.

Now on the flipside, there are MANY that I know that want to hide canyoneering from the rest of the world so the public doesn't plug up the permits and making national parks and state parks and BLM land more crowded. I understand that but disagree. Less Americans (great... Time for a soapbox) are getting outdoors. They are becoming clams and living in a virtual world. All of us know how awesome canyoneering is and are excited to take people down with us trough the subway or escalante for the first time. So cool!

Like I have said before my intentions are all for the greater community good, not just a select individuals. People will disagree and that's fine. But they have to realize this sport is advancing really, really fast. And this is a crucial time in making standardizations and having a community-driven sport. But that's my world. And my world is great! I have hundreds of canyons logged, many miles of hiking and exploring, and I'm offering my resources freely. That's it Penny. That's all it is. Nothing more. No ulterior motive.

[jman]

Thanks for the reply Penny.

Here the thing - most big players will migrate over there and keep the discussion there. And that's totally fine! It's a great website and the sport needs something like is and ill be using it a lot. Bogley has a different feel and I think more approachable environment.

Collective has the big players and I don't play with the big players and have a few times declined trip invites. I have my own selfish reasons. I don't like playing games and what I have I share (with the exception of one canyon in Zion named Black Canyon which is ALL on private property).

Anywho, I have mentioned this idea before but I thought bringing it back up again now could be a good time.

My idea is community driven and supported. I know that lots of individuals have been doing this type of thing. But it would be good for the advancement and protection of the sport if there was a community standard. I don't have all of the ideas, and neither do veterans like Tom or Ram. Sure they know a LOT ( understatement) than me. But I'm young, I have lots of energy and dedication.

Wouldn't it be cool that new local heroes in Idaho, Utah, Arizona and do these meetings. In kaysville for example of where I live, I have met only a handful of people who even know what the sport is. Once I talk to them and show them a few pics on my phone - they are interested and some ask to join us and guide for them, and some are like "are never even thought that was possible! rappeling waterfalls?! awesome!". anyways, to share it with this peoppe who are excited about the sport who want to share it with others can, and have the community support and backing.

They can present it in their flavor, their personality but the same techniques and introduction and links would all be the same making our community stronger and bigger.

Now on the flipside, there are MANY that I know that want to hide canyoneering from the rest of the world so the public doesn't plug up the permits and making national parks and state parks and BLM land more crowded. I understand that but disagree. Less Americans (great... Time for a soapbox) are getting outdoors. They are becoming clams and living in a virtual world. All of us know how awesome canyoneering is and are excited to take people down with us trough the subway or escalante for the first time. So cool!

Like I have said before my intentions are all for the greater community good, not just a select individuals. People will disagree and that's fine. But they have to realize this sport is advancing really, really fast. And this is a crucial time in making standardizations and having a community-driven sport. But that's my world. And my world is great! I have hundreds of canyons logged, many miles of hiking and exploring, and I'm offering my resources freely. That's it Penny. That's all it is. Nothing more. No ulterior motive.

Hehe. A racist bastage? Haha, I don't think so, I have a color TV you know.

Thanks for the encouragement DC.

I see that you actually take people down canyons. My approach is a bit different - my idea is just the basics, no actual guiding. I think the liability would be to high there. However, we would include numerous guiding groups in our presentation and handouts of people who they can contact for their services. It's a win-win for both sides. Part of the 101 would be hands-on demonstration on how to tie the basic knots, how to rappel, things like that... Nothing too advanced. Basically, it's just enough to whet their appetite for more and show links to the online communities and guide services. That way the liability is on the user and not us (huge deal).

Does that make sense?

[penmartens]

Jman,
I was agreeing with you and offering some reasons why this is a good idea. I also made a suggestion of how to make this happen. It sounds like I was somehow misunderstood. My apologies. I meant to offer encouragement.

Penny

[jman]

Jman,
I was agreeing with you and offering some reasons why this is a good idea. I also made a suggestion of how to make this happen. It sounds like I was somehow misunderstood. My apologies. I meant to offer encouragement.

Penny

No misunderstanding Penny. I was explaining why I don't think it would be a good idea for me to share it over - it would get overlooked. I would get overlooked I mean.

I'll do it, and hope for the best I guess...

[penmartens]

No misunderstanding Penny. I was explaining why I don't think it would be a good idea for me to share it over - it would get overlooked. I would get overlooked I mean.

I'll do it, and hope for the best I guess...

i understand your hesitancy. I have some of the same misgivings. Your friends are here on Bogley. Maybe you should start here and expand if it takes off.

Penny

[jman]

i understand your hesitancy. I have some of the same misgivings. Your friends are here on Bogley. Maybe you should start here and expand if it takes off.

Penny

Thanks Penny.
Yup, ill start here and present it to the oligarchy. Hehe

Well I have the outline all done. Ill put it in a PDF in the next day or two for you guys to check out and critique and provide feedback.

[Iceaxe]

Jman, I've done some 101 classes in the SLC area. We have a spot in Draper we use I'd be happy to show you. I'd also be happy to run through what I taught, which is basically enough to run an easy slot like Keyhole, Subway or Entrajo. So far everyone I help returned safety, some transitioned into the sport and some just enjoyed a good memory.

A big part depends on the students. Some group's pick it up fast and some take a lot more coaching.



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[jman]

Jman, I've done some 101 classes in the SLC area. We have a spot in Draper we use I'd be happy to show you. I'd also be happy to run through what I taught, which is basically enough to run an easy slot like Keyhole, Subway or Entrajo. So far everyone I help returned safety, some transitioned into the sport and some just enjoyed a good memory.

A big part depends on the students. Some group's pick it up fast and some take a lot more coaching.



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Is the spot you use a small low-flowing waterfall by chance?

I do like the classroom part of it, but I don't think taking people out in classes is what I'm looking for for this project. Don't get me wrong - canyoneering is best taught all hands-on method.

The thing I'm proposing is just the "welcome to canyoneering" idea and go from there. It very well could evolve into "the field". Once I can figure out the liability aspect.

Basically, Sombeech had it right. Just explaining the gear needed, where we do canyoneering, who (if any) teaches canyoneering professionally, where can I meet more friends who like this sport, etc. And then we provide the pictures, the videos, presentation, and weblinks, phone numbers and addresses to these companies and websites for more info.

Think of it like a community class taught in the evenings at the local HS or library or university. There would be flyers or a bulletin hanging up that says "want to Learn how to rappel, descend slot canyons, and see places where 99% of the world will never see" I dunno something like that, but hopefully not as cheesy. I'm still working on a good canyoneering intro...

Anyways, that's what I'm envisioning, of course it is welcome to evolve.

[Iceaxe]

Gotcha!

FYI - the place we use isn't a canyon, but a small grid bolted cliff.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3