1st Rap in Englestead Hollow

[edsbay]

I want to try Englestead in Zion and realize the first rap is 300 feet. I have read some beta on this route and just wanted to confirm you can break this up into 3 rappels if you do not have two true 200 foot ropes (60 meter) or if not doing single line technique after the first rappel?

Do you rappel down and right over both rap chains/bolts or could you pass them?

Is this route do-able in early May when snowmelt and potential for alot of water as well?

Thanks,

E...

[Felicia]

Beta: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/...estead-canyon/

A great thread here on Bogley about this topic, but I can't find it right now. This thread has info: http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...r-Birch-Hollow

Felicia

[Brian in SLC]

I want to try Englestead in Zion and realize the first rap is 300 feet. I have read some beta on this route and just wanted to confirm you can break this up into 3 rappels if you do not have two true 200 foot ropes (60 meter) or if not doing single line technique after the first rappel?

Do you rappel down and right over both rap chains/bolts or could you pass them?

Is this route do-able in early May when snowmelt and potential for alot of water as well?

I've known folk that have done the route with 2 60m ropes. So...doable.

If you pick the wrong tree to rappel from, or, don't keep an eye out, yeah, you could miss. Its vertical and smooth for the most part. You best be ready to stop at some point (prior to coming off the ends of your too-short ropes might be prudent...ha ha) and re-ascend if need be otherwise, pass on this canyon.

My advice, if you've never been there, is to scout the canyon from the top by hiking around on the rim and get a very good idear where that bolt station part way down is located, and, maybe even have a spotter as the first person goes down. Its a big wall type rappel in. You'll want to have your tethering/anchoring system pretty dialed and be experienced in pulling ropes and transferring from rap to rap in that type of terrain. Not a spot real tolerant of mistakes. You hang a rope up, drop a rope, etc, you'll be stuck mid wall or worse.

May might be hit or miss. We tried it in early season and was way too much snow/ice. Doesn't really hold that much water?

[Deathcricket]

wrong link

[Deathcricket]

Whoops crap that was Birch.... Sorry on my phone and not good with edits... here is the Englestead... I'll fix that othe rpost when i get home.

Edit: What Ice said :)

[Iceaxe]

I want to try Englestead in Zion and realize the first rap is 300 feet. I have read some beta on this route and just wanted to confirm you can break this up into 3 rappels if you do not have two true 200 foot ropes (60 meter) or if not doing single line technique after the first rappel?

You can break the Englestead entrance rappel into two rappels (that is how I always do it). The route requires two 60 meter (200') ropes. The first rappel will be 80' to a very small cornerstance with bolts. The second rappel is 200' and takes you all the way to the canyon floor (There is a large ledge about 15' above the canyon floor that also has one bolt). The mid-wall bolt station is easy to spot from the canyon rim before commiting.

The following is from here: http://climb-utah.com/Zion/englestead1.htm

The first section is an 80-foot rappel from a Ponderosa Pine to a 6" cornerstance with two bolts. The second section is a 200-foot rappel to the canyon floor (our 60 meter climbing ropes reach just perfect with rope stretch). The entire Big Wall route is clearly visible if you walk around the head of the canyon and look in. It is only commonsense that you visually locate the corner bolt station before committing to the entrance rappel.

The biggest problem you will have in early May is getting a permit to exit down Orderville. The North Fork of the Virgin River flow rate must be at or below 150 cubic feet per second (cfs) before the National Park Service will issue a permit to hike or canyoneer Orderville Gulch, Mystery Canyon or Imlay Canyon.

In early May you will probably find large snow drifts in a a couple places deep in the canyon, but they should not be an issue.

[ratagonia]

What he said, except -

The biggest problem you will have in early May is getting a permit to exit down Orderville. The North Fork of the Virgin River flow rate must be at or below 150 cubic feet per second (cfs) before the National Park Service will issue a permit to hike or canyoneer Orderville Gulch, Mystery Canyon or Imlay Canyon.

In early May you will probably find large snow drifts in a a couple places deep in the canyon, but they should not be an issue.

Maybe, maybe not.

In the unlikely case that we do not get any more snow, it COULD be reasonable in early May. My guess would be NOT. The bottom of the canyon tends to collect snow and hold it for quite some time. Hard to tell before you get there. Hard to tell from the rim. The real problem is when the snow is melting out vigorously, when it can have snowbridges and rotting snow otherwise, which could dump you into flowing icewater.

You do not need an exit down Orderville permit, you can hike out the top. Climbing that chimney at the park boundary rock when it is flowing with icewater CAN be challenging.

The mid-wall transfer is not particularly difficult, but it does require not making mistakes. Also, you put constraints on your equipment that make it more difficult. So, NO, you are unlikely to be able to pull it off with only ONE 200 foot rope and no single-strand rappelling.

That this is not conspicuous to you with the information available tends to indicate that this is an adventure that perhaps you should save for when you have more experience.

Did you buy your ropes at Harbor Freight?

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...d-The-Incident

Tom

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: In early May Fat Man's Misery is a MUCH better adventure.

[Bootboy]

Last year (light snow year), we did englestead on may 17 and found frigid water and lots of ice and snow through the first rap sequence. The water was not flowing below rap 4. we hit small snow patches below that but it was totally manageable orderville was kinda chilly. In May, if not in the sun orderville would have been much more fun with just a wetsuit top.

[hank moon]

The second rappel is 200' and takes you all the way to the canyon floor

Last time I did it (about 6 yrs ago), we used a 200' rope but did 3 raps. The first two as you describe, the last about 30-40' off a bolted anchor. My memory is that our 200' rope did not reach the canyon floor from the "cornerstance" anchor. But my memory is getting weird these days...

[ratagonia]

Last time I did it (about 6 yrs ago), we used a 200' rope but did 3 raps. The first two as you describe, the last about 30-40' off a bolted anchor. My memory is that our 200' rope did not reach the canyon floor from the "cornerstance" anchor. But my memory is getting weird these days...

That's how I remember it too - although not really an important detail as the cornerstance line of rappel lands on the upper ledge, and the anchor is in plain sight (if still there).

Tom

[hank moon]

"the anchor...(if still there)"

That's the part that could be significant (to some).

[Iceaxe]

My memory is that our 200' rope did not reach the canyon floor from the "cornerstance" anchor. But my memory is getting weird these days...

That last 200' rappel might be a bit longer as my ropes didn't touch the ground. With stretch they were about 3' off the ground and we just rapped off the end of the ropes.... but... it's not a big deal if your ropes are a little short on this rappel as the large ledge above the canyon floor also makes a nice landing zone. It's one of those deals where after you pass the mid-wall station everything else is easy to figure out.

[hank moon]

bueno, guess i better get back there someday to enjoy that groovy place and refresh the memory :)

[Iceaxe]

bueno, guess i better get back there someday to enjoy that groovy place and refresh the memory :)

x2

[Mountaineer]

That's how I remember it too - although not really an important detail as the cornerstance line of rappel lands on the upper ledge, and the anchor is in plain sight (if still there).

Tom

As of August it was still there and in great condition. We got a 300' rope from Tom, rapped to that ledge (it is a large ledge), found the bolt, but just continued on the same rope. We left the rope there, and came back later that night to pick it up. If I was in a different skilled group, I would have probably opted for the station method as described.

It was a fantastic experience, and well worth the trip.

[Sombeech]

FYI, if searches don't turn up desired results on a thread, try the "Similar Threads" box at the bottom of the page for related material. This could take up to 1 day to compile data though.

[moab mark]

June 2009 the snow was right on the edge of us getting thru. I have no idea why it turned the pictures sideways? We had to climb thru that hole above my head to keep going.