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Thread: Please help with zion canyoneering questions

  1. #1

    Please help with zion canyoneering questions

    Hi Everybody,

    Me and my boyfriend are planning a two week trip around the grand circle in MAY.

    We'll be in zion for 3 days.

    I've never done canyoneering. I've read a book - it seems like a lot of fun, but very gear intensive at the same time. The transition from water to vertical is insane.

    Is there a "dry" canyoneering route somewhere in zion in may?

    I want to rappel down, walk through a canyon for a bit and walk out all in one day. I don't want to swim or even wade in water. We're flying in and there's no way I want to bring a full rack of gear needed, wetsuits... etc. But I can bring a half rope, some pro and harnesses.

    I've done high altitude mountaineering, so I'm pretty comfortable with the vertical. But I realize that addition of water makes it a completely different sport and the skills that used to work in the mountains might kill me in the canyon.

    This is why I'm asking if this is available:
    rappel down (preferably bolts)
    walk for 1-5 hours
    the bottom must be dry
    walk out and not spend the night in the crack

    Basically I want a "mountaineering" trip through the canyon and not get my feet wet.

    Any ideas/suggestions?

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  3. #2
    Basically I want a "mountaineering" trip through the canyon and not get my feet wet.
    Maybe Behunin or Bridge Mountain Arch (a.k.a. Crawford Arch)? Behunin will still likely have a pool or two. Maybe Lower Refrigerator would be a good option.

    Anyway, I assume that you have lots of experience with rope work? If so, you should be OK.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  4. #3
    To rent gear: http://www.zionadventures.com/

    Canyon Beta: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/technical/

    I would not shy away from wet feet: wet feet are fun and they dry.
    Some people "go" through life and other people "grow" through life. -Robert Holden

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott P View Post
    Maybe Behunin or Bridge Mountain Arch.
    These are NOT slot canyons in the traditional sence if that is what you are looking for.

  6. #5
    I believe the canyons you should be looking at are Yankee Doodle and Birch Hollow.

    Yankee Doodle Route Description

    Birch Hollow Route Description

    There is NO canyon on the Colorado Plateau I know of that does not require some wading depending on time of year or conditions. Remember, the canyons were formed by water, so it only makes sense you will likely encounter some.

    I believe Yankee Doodle is your best bet for a number of reasons. The biggest reason being it will give you the biggest bang for your buck and does not require wetsuits. It normally requires only knee deep wading, is bolted and can be done with a 150' rope. The canyon is very noobie friendly.

    This video shows Yankee Doodle Canyon...


  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Felicia View Post
    To rent gear: http://www.zionadventures.com/

    Canyon Beta: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/technical/

    I would not shy away from wet feet: wet feet are fun and they dry.
    My concern is hypothermia. What's the water temperature like?

    I guess occasional wade is ok.

    I looked at this video of behunin:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW0HyI8ooQE

    I have a question about the 50 meter rappel. Does it have an extra set of bolts in the middle?

    I was hoping we wouldn't have to carry two full length ropes.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    I believe the canyons you should be looking at are Yankee Doodle and Birch Hollow.

    Yankee Doodle Route Description

    Birch Hollow Route Description

    There is NO canyon on the Colorado Plateau I know of that does not require some wading depending on time of year or conditions. Remember, the canyons were formed by water, so it only makes sense you will likely encounter some.

    I believe Yankee Doodle is your best bet for a number of reasons. The biggest reason being it will give you the biggest bang for your buck and does not require wetsuits. It normally requires only knee deep wading, is bolted and can be done with a 150' rope. The canyon is very noobie friendly.
    Thank you. This looks very nice.

    I'm hesitant about 6-8 hour trips "just in case". Zion will be at the end of our two week trip and I expect we'll be quite tired by then.

    Birch hollow link seems broken for some reason.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    I believe the canyons you should be looking at are Yankee Doodle and Birch Hollow.

    Yankee Doodle Route Description

    Birch Hollow Route Description

    There is NO canyon on the Colorado Plateau I know of that does not require some wading depending on time of year or conditions. Remember, the canyons were formed by water, so it only makes sense you will likely encounter some.

    I believe Yankee Doodle is your best bet for a number of reasons. The biggest reason being it will give you the biggest bang for your buck and does not require wetsuits. It normally requires only knee deep wading, is bolted and can be done with a 150' rope. The canyon is very noobie friendly.
    +1

    I'm guessing no shuttle will also be an issue. Yankee Doodle is fun, short (2 hours) and easy. No shuttle car needed.

    While Birch is a better canyon, without a shuttle car would be a bit of a hike.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kalaimer View Post
    Birch hollow link seems broken for some reason.
    Fixed: http://climb-utah.com/Zion/birch1.htm


    Quote Originally Posted by kalaimer View Post
    My concern is hypothermia. What's the water temperature like?
    Hypothermia should not be an issue with Yankee Doodle. We have never used wetsuits. You can get an update from Bogley a couple days before you go.

    Question... what are you after exactly? The swirling slot canyon the southwest is famous for (Yankee Doodle)? or a chance to do a hike with some rappels (Behunin)?

    If your goal is just to visit a really cool slot canyon with minimal effort you might want to look at exploring Buckskin Gulch. Just enter at Wire Pass and hike it as a down and back. You can make that work for a 2 hour or 10 hour day.

    Here is a video of Wire Pass and Buckskin Gulch done as a through hike.


  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Fixed: http://climb-utah.com/Zion/birch1.htm
    Hypothermia should not be an issue with Yankee Doodle. We have never used wetsuits. You can get an update from Bogley a couple days before you go.
    Cool. Will do.

    Question... what are you after exactly?
    1) come back alive. We've never done canyoneering.
    2) limit hikes to day trips. I've never hiked in a proper desert. Zion is the last two nights of the trip before the plane, so getting stuck for an extra night means lots of money lost.
    3) see as much of it as possible and get a feel for the place. We'll have two or three full days.

    As a concept, rappels for the sake of rappels don't excite me. But if they allow us to get away from the crowds, see something cool and can be done with one 60m rope, it's all good. Me+nature+solitude+rope=fun. Because your nick is Iceaxe I assume you understand.

    A rappel would take me a step away from THE ONE touristy spot with a line of people to find freedom of the hills, but not overwhelm to the point of needing a wetsuit.

    I'd hire a guide, but we're a bit tight on funds as it is.


    The swirling slot canyon the southwest is famous for (Yankee Doodle)? or a chance to do a hike with some rappels (Behunin)?
    I'm open to all. Behunin seems nice, but it requires a second full length rope and might be just a tad too long. Although if we're at the trailhead an hour before sunrise, it leaves enough room for eventualities.

    If your goal is just to visit a really cool slot canyon with minimal effort you might want to look at exploring Buckskin Gulch. Just enter at Wire Pass and hike it as a down and back. You can make that work for a 2 hour or 10 hour day.
    Looks good. Judging by the look of the visitors, it seems user friendly. :)

    If we're flying from canada, is it ok to wrap a 60 meter rope around your head and claim it to be a hat?

  12. #11

    Re: Please help with zion canyoneering questions

    Just a thought... buy a new rope when you get here and mail it back to yourself when you leave. You can never have too many ropes. Lots of places to buy a rope near Zion.


    Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

  13. #12
    Just a thought... buy a new rope when you get here and mail it back to yourself when you leave. You can never have too many ropes. Lots of places to buy a rope near Zion.
    I have about 2000 feet of rope in europe and about 1000 feet in north america. I'm trying to avoid more rope.

  14. #13
    When you do your Grand Circle trip will you be passing thru Bryce Canyon National Park? If so, you should consider going a bit further north to Escalante. The Hole in the Rock road will take you to some dry non-technical slots such as Spooky, Peek-a-Boo and Brimstone.


    Similarly, if you were traveling from Zion to Grand Canyon North, you could head for the Wire Pass trailhead (House Rock Valley Rd twixt Kanab and Page) and hike into Buckskin Gulch for as many hours as you wanted. Might be muddy, but likely no wading or swimming.


    In Zion, you could always hike up Hidden Canyon for as far as you'd be comfortable. Would be dry. You could do it top down, but that would likely take you longer than five hours and require two vehicles or some hitchhiking. Zion also offers some challenging slickrock scrambles. North Guardian Angel would be a good one.

  15. #14
    Not sure if you're aware, but the last rap in Behunin is a free rappel. I just mention it because my son, who is an advanced rock climber, hates free rappels, while my wife, who is a single pitch/top rope beginner, loves them.

  16. #15
    Behunin is the biggest waste of a good day available in Zion National Park....

    There are so many other canyoneering choices that are so much better... just sayin'


  17. #16
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Behunin is a great canyon, especially in the spring. Of course, opinions vary. In the spring, it certainly can be cold and wet. Part of its charm.

    Tom

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  19. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Behunin is the biggest waste of a good day available in Zion National Park....

    There are so many other canyoneering choices that are so much better... just sayin'

    Haven't done all the Zions yet...but maybe. It is a long hike, but worth it. I really liked this canyon. Fun! The last few raps are different and challenging. (But as you stated Iceaxe, anytime you are out in a canyon with family and friends it is always a good day).

  20. #18
    My deal with Behuinin is it's not a traditional slot canyon. If I want to rappel down a wide dry drainage in a pretty setting I can do that above my home and save myself the 5 hour drive. I hate to see folks who come from a long distance waste a day in Behunin when I think there are much better choices.... if you have done most the other canyons in Zion or are local it's a nice hike with a couple of rappels. But I personally don't cinsider the route to be "canyoneering".

    YMMV

  21. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kalaimer View Post
    see as much of it as possible and get a feel for the place. We'll have two or three full days...Behunin seems nice, but it requires a second full length rope and might be just a tad too long. Although if we're at the trailhead an hour before sunrise, it leaves enough room for eventualities.
    Count me as another fan of Behunin. Its a neat gig. I like loop hikes that don't see the same scenery. And, coming out near the Emerald Pools is great. Hiking up near the West Rim has nice views. Its a day with some mileage, though, and, there's the two rope thing. If you only have 2-3 days in Zion I'd probably suggest a day hike to Angels Landing (could be done as a side trip to Behunin...bigger day though and there's that second rope issue).

    Pine Creek, if reasonably dry would be great. The Keyhole/Pine Creek combo would be super even if you had to rent a wet/dry suit to pull it off. If you did Middle Echo (given conditions of course) you could use the same suit the next day in that canyon as it always has water. Nice hike up to the East Rim could be done too.

    Longer day, but, the Subway would be great just as a hike in/out.

    If you've never been to Zion...even if crowded, you still might want to pluck off the more popular stuff. Popular for good reason.

    Spry would be nice but you'd need more rope for that one too.

    If the water levels permit, a descent down Orderville and into the Narrows would be great. Or, just the hike up and back. Might be pretty chilly in May so a wet/dry suit would be prudent.

  22. #20
    I'm still limiting stuff to dry stuff only.

    And I'm open to other parks .

    It's hard to book everything and to optimize it all. I was not able to book a campsite in canoyonlands, so before zion we're staying at arches for four days and bryce for two days. Out of arches, we'll be doing trips to canyonlands ntl pk.

    I wasn't figure out how to camp in between those two parks and what to do.

    We booked the tickets three weeks ago then then were frantically researching where to go and which parks to visit the two weeks we're there. Some of the stuff was being booked fast, so we just made a loop.

    I gotta say you guys have it really nice in the US. There's one central system and NPS/BLM camping is much cheaper than in canada. Two weeks in canadian parks would cost about 800 bucks.

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