Boy Scouts could end ban on Gay Members & Leaders

[accadacca]

For 103 years, the Boy Scouts of America has been a part of the fabric of this nation, providing it's
youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. In the past two weeks,
Scouting has received an outpouring of feedback from the American public. It reinforces how deeply
people care about Scouting and how passionate they are about the organization.

After careful consideration and extensive dialogue within the Scouting family, along with comments
from those outside the organization, the volunteer officers of the Boy Scouts of America's National
Executive Board concluded that due to the complexity of this issue, the organization needs time for
a more deliberate review of its membership policy.

To that end, the executive board directed its committees to further engage representatives of Scouting's
membership and listen to their perspectives and concerns. This will assist the officers' work on a
resolution on membership standards. The approximately 1,400 voting members of the national council
will take action on the resolution at the national meeting in May 2013.

In the coming days and weeks, more information will be shared with you. In the meantime, thanks for all
you do for Scouting.

[ratagonia]

That's been the point of many posts here - it's a institution aka private organization, and can do what they want essentially.

I think I can understand why you say " intolerance", but again, many examples can be given on why I can't join this fanclub, or this church, or that business, or the blood oath gang for secret canyons...

It IS a private organization, and CAN do what it wants. So is the KKK. And the Unitarian Universalist Association.

It is also a public person, meaning people do and can talk about it. For all us scouts, scouters and former scouts, the question is what is the best policy for the institution that we love or have loved. That's where I am coming from. Many, many, many atheists and gays have participated in scouting programs. It is only after the fundamentalists seized control of the National that litmus tests became part of the dogma.

That the BSA derives considerable financial support from many, many government agencies is also a concern. If it took all comers, I would not be concerned about this, but since it has staked a claim as homophobic and religiously-select, then it is inappropriate for government entities to provide it support, other than the tax exemption provided to all religious organizations.

Tom

[jman]

It IS a private organization, and CAN do what it wants. So is the KKK. And the Unitarian Universalist Association.

It is also a public person, meaning people do and can talk about it. For all us scouts, scouters and former scouts, the question is what is the best policy for the institution that we love or have loved. That's where I am coming from. Many, many, many atheists and gays have participated in scouting programs. It is only after the fundamentalists seized control of the National that litmus tests became part of the dogma.

That the BSA derives considerable financial support from many, many government agencies is also a concern. If it took all comers, I would not be concerned about this, but since it has staked a claim as homophobic and religiously-select, then it is inappropriate for government entities to provide it support, other than the tax exemption provided to all religious organizations.

Tom

Thanks for you explanation Tom,

I do agree with your comments on the tax exemptions and government support. That should change.

[jman]

NEWS RELEASE
Church Cautions Against Speculation
On Scouting Decision
SALT LAKE CITY

[James_B_Wads2000]

But once and for all, can we quit DIRECTLY linking homosexual discrimination to racism against African Americans? It's not even close to what the Blacks went through.

Congratulations Justin. You have derailed another thread arguing some tangent and nobody gives a shit about. After all these years I still can't figure out if you are incredibly stupid or incredibly smart.

Blacks=gays=Mormons=retards=who gives a shit.





James

[Sombeech]

arguing some tangent and nobody gives a shit about.

They don't care about it so much, that it is brought up consistently!

But hey, better late than never to the party.

[Sombeech]

then it is inappropriate for government entities to provide it support, other than the tax exemption provided to all religious organizations.

This makes me think, what if the BSA stated themselves as a religion, or started to head in that direction for the tax exempt status?

[Scott P]

"The Boy Scouts of America believes that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations in the Scout Oath and Scout Law to be morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed. The conduct of youth members must be in compliance with the Scout Oath and Law, and membership in Boy Scouts of America is contingent upon the willingness to accept Scouting's values and beliefs."

To be fair, in the LDS Church at least, it’s homosexual conduct (as in the sex acts themselves), and not being homosexual that is viewed as not morally straight. In that church at least, no one, whether heterosexual or homosexual is supposed to participate in sex acts during the age of the scouting years. Having attractions is not viewed as immoral, only acting upon them (regardless of sexual orientation), including dwelling on those thoughts (regardless of sexual orientation).

As for myself, I’d worry about a homosexual going on campouts with my boy no more than I would as with a heterosexual going on a campout with my girl.

Sadly, in this world, we still have to be cautious. When I worked at the scout camp at age 16, there was a scout in my (big) tent because I was showing him some maps on where we were going. I didn’t even think about it, but did get talked to afterwards that it was a serious violation of scout rules (and I didn’t think about or know about that rule). Being cautious applies to all regardless of sexual orientation.

[ratagonia]

This makes me think, what if the BSA stated themselves as a religion, or started to head in that direction for the tax exempt status?

BSA already has tax exempt status as an educational organization.

So.... what are you suggesting, ? Maybe they should come out as an explicitly religious organization, like the Knights of Columbus? Hmmm, that gets real complicated because once you start being explicit, the Evangelicals and the LDSers (not to mention the Catholics) don't really get along so well.

One of the good things about the Boy Scouts, even when sponsored by a church, the troops themselves tend to be secular. BSA has a purpose that transcends religion. My understanding is that LDS-sponsored troops take in non-LDS boys, though there is a strong religious component to the the BSA in Utah, as it is the official Young Men's organization of The Church.

In other parts of the country, with a greater mix of religions, some church sponsors the troop, but it is a BSA organization and has no religious component - the church gives a place to meet and perhaps some problem-solving resources.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

When I worked at the scout camp at age 16, there was a scout in my (big) tent because I was showing him some maps on where we were going. I didn’t even think about it, but did get talked to afterwards that it was a serious violation of scout rules (and I didn’t think about or know about that rule). Being cautious applies to all regardless of sexual orientation.

I coach football.... and my most stressful day each year is the day I have to teach my QB's and center's how to properly snap the football. 30 years ago I didn't think much of it, but as the world has changed this day becomes more stressful each year.

[Brian in SLC]

So, you teach the shotgun formation?

Ha ha.

I was a center briefly...

[2065toyota]

BSA already has tax exempt status as an educational organization.

So.... what are you suggesting, ? Maybe they should come out as an explicitly religious organization, like the Knights of Columbus? Hmmm, that gets real complicated because once you start being explicit, the Evangelicals and the LDSers (not to mention the Catholics) don't really get along so well.

One of the good things about the Boy Scouts, even when sponsored by a church, the troops themselves tend to be secular. BSA has a purpose that transcends religion. My understanding is that LDS-sponsored troops take in non-LDS boys, though there is a strong religious component to the the BSA in Utah, as it is the official Young Men's organization of The Church.

In other parts of the country, with a greater mix of religions, some church sponsors the troop, but it is a BSA organization and has no religious component - the church gives a place to meet and perhaps some problem-solving resources.

Tom

Even living in Cedar City & St. George, my son has had non LDS kids in his group. I do believe it is harder in this area to be non LDS and be involved in scouting, but with any effort of the boy or the boy's parents they will be included with no hesitation.

The BSA needs to be supported no matter what their final decision of the subject ends up even if you don't agree with it. There are many boys that without scouting will not every see the mountains, go hiking, or end up on a wilderness camp. Kids need to get out of the city life, the XBOX entertainment (except Black Ops 2 - that is worthwhile entertainment. gamertag PRIZ1234 ) Hopefully you don't get my son on there. I seen him go 83-4 on capture the flag the other day. Now I'm sidetracked so my post ends

[Sombeech]

My understanding is that LDS-sponsored troops take in non-LDS boys, though there is a strong religious component to the the BSA in Utah, as it is the official Young Men's organization of The Church.

I'm not exactly sure what is meant by LDS-sponsored troops. To my understanding, the LDS church has zero ruling over the scouts, except that they provide a convenient meeting place for the boys and so of course they have to follow the conduct rules while in their building. And then of course the boundaries will often (but not always?) influence the troop boundaries, but mostly out of group convenience.

Of course non LDS boys are welcomed into the troop, because again I don't think it's really an LDS (owned) Scout group. It just very likely happens to contain a lot of the same group of boys, and anybody else that is interested in the group is more than welcome to join.

If by LDS sponsored, you mean they donate money, then yes. And it is also Sombeech sponsored too because I donate money, along with a lot of people in the neighborhood.

Can the scouts meet at somebody's house instead of the church building? Sure, but why? To get away from LDS influence? No, what would change really? If it's the same group of boys, it doesn't matter where they meet. But when the LDS Church offers their heated meeting rooms complete with chairs, tables, gymnasiums and other facilities, a great big thank you should be in order

[hank moon]

That's been the point of many posts here - it's a institution aka private organization, and can do what they want essentially.

Actually, they are private-ish.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America

The BSA holds a Congressional charter under Title 36 of the United States Code,[19] which means that it is one of the comparatively rare "Title 36" corporations in the United States.[20] The 1916 statute of incorporation established this institution amongst a small number of other patriotic and national organizations which are similarly chartered,[21] such as the Girl Scouts of the USA, the American Legion, the Red Cross, Major League Baseball, and the National Academy of Sciences. The federal incorporation was originally construed primarily as an honor, however it does grant the chartered organization some special privileges and rights, including freedom from antitrust and monopoly regulation, and complete control over the organization's symbols and insignia. As example, outside of the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, no other youth organizations may use the term "scouts" or "scouting" in their name.

[hank moon]

Scout news from the UK (Tom might enjoy):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...ised-them.html


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2259146.html

[hank moon]

One of the side benefits of a good (i.e. civil) thread like this is the googlin up history fun. For instance, I did not know that the world scouting movement began in the UK, or that it grew so incredibly quickly from its beginnings in 1907. Purty fascinating stuff, if you're interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting

[accadacca]

One of the side benefits of a good (i.e. civil) thread like this is the googlin up history fun. For instance, I did not know that the world scouting movement began in the UK, or that it grew so incredibly quickly from its beginnings in 1907. Purty fascinating stuff, if you're interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting

Yes sir! I've been to the Baden Powell House in London.

https://plus.google.com/113853267396...ut?gl=us&hl=en

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden-Powell_House

[Scott P]

For instance, I did not know that the world scouting movement began in the UK, or that it grew so incredibly quickly from its beginnings in 1907. Purty fascinating stuff, if you're interested:

Yes. When I worked at Scout Camp we would wear both Bayden Powell shirts and scout uniforms.

Another interesting piece of trivia is that more scouts are Muslim than they are Christian, which is demonstrated in the wiki page.

[accadacca]

Two months ahead of the Boy Scouts of America

[accadacca]

Interesting... I just got this today.