Boy Scouts could end ban on Gay Members & Leaders

[accadacca]

Boy Scouts propose allowing gay scouts but banning gay leaders

The proposal — a revision of a plan the Scouts floated in January that would have left it up to local troops whether to accept gay members and leaders — left advocates on both sides of the issue dissatisfied.

Opponents of accepting gay scouts complained that the organization would be abandoning its decades-old values, while supporters said the organization would be abandoning gay youths on their 18th birthdays.

"The Boy Scouts are once again forcing me to look my children in the eyes and tell them that our family isn't good enough," said Jennifer Tyrrell of Bridgeport, Ohio, who was expelled last year as a den master for her 7-year-old son's Cub Scout den because she is a lesbian.

"My heart goes out to the young adults in Scouting who would be able to continue as scouts if this is passed, but then be thrown out when they reach the age to become leaders," Tyrrell said Friday.

But John Stemberger, founder of On My Honor, a coalition of Scouting parents and leaders who support the ban, said the proposal was "cleverly worded ... to dodge criticism from gay activists" while creating "a myriad of problems for how to manage and ensure the safety of the boys in the program."

"When it comes to young boys, parents should still have the final say on the issues of sexuality and politics, Stemberger said in a statement. "Allowing open homosexuality in the BSA injects both those topics right into the program."

The Scouts, one of the U.S.'s most popular private youth groups, said Friday that its National Council would vote on the proposal the week of May 20.

In an unexpected move in January, the organization proposed a resolution that would let local Scouting organizations decide for themselves whether to admit gay scouts and adult leaders. But it said Friday that it changed its mind after it was flooded with hundreds of thousands of responses to surveys it commissioned on the idea.

Among the 280 administrative local councils, half recommended no change, 38 percent recommended a change and 14 percent took a neutral position, the Scouts said.

"While perspectives and opinions vary significantly, parents, adults in the Scouting community and teens alike tend to agree that youth should not be denied the benefits of Scouting," the organization said in a statement.
Read the entire proposed resolution (.pdf)

The membership policy has roiled the Boy Scouts in recent years, particularly after the ouster of Tyrrell and the denial of the Eagle Scout rank to California teenager Ryan Andresen because he is gay.

While many of the more than 116,000 local Scouting organizations nationwide are sponsored by religious groups that oppose gay and lesbian rights, the new resolution declares that "the Boy Scouts of America does not have an agenda on the matter of sexual orientation, and resolving this complex issue is not the role of the organization."
Zach Wahls, founder of the nonprofit activist group Scouts for Equality, disagreed. "We will continue to fight to push discrimination out of Scouting once and for all," he said.

While "we are glad that the Boy Scouts of America is taking this historic step forward," the proposed ban on gay leaders would "continue to prevent many great and loving parents from sharing the joys of Scouting with their children," he said.

But Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, a conservative Christian advocacy group, urged the Boy Scouts not to "jettison the core value that homosexual conduct is immoral."

"This resolution would introduce open homosexuality into the ranks and eventually the leadership of Scouting," Perkins said in a statement. "This is totally unacceptable to the vast majority of Scouting parents who want to keep their exclusive right to discuss issues of sexuality with their sons."

Hundreds of comments on the Scouts' Facebook page reflected those divisions, with many weighing in to urge the Scouts to continue its ban and others saying they were disappointed that the organization was splitting the difference by differentiating between gay youths and adults:

"No person — youth or adult — should be denied Scouting membership because of their sexual orientation. This proposed resolution is a step in the right direction, but it is wholly insufficient. Now is the time for the Boy Scouts of America to take a firm stand and become a preeminent leader in morality and equality. Intolerance and bullying are not Scouting values."

"Possibly the worst solution they could have come up with. It will satisfy no one, and will only prolong the issue. Almost any other alternative, from a complete acceptance of gays to a complete upholding of current policy would have been more defensible."

"Evasive once again! They need to change the policy across the board and be done with it. Enough "beating around the bush" and trying to avoid the issues at hand! As a Cubmaster, I am truly fed up with the whole thing and can't wait to be done!"

Source: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...y-leaders?lite

[Chivas]

As in Constitutional cases, we should go back to the intent of the Founders: in this case, Baden-Powell. While doubtless aware of the gay tendencies in a minority of Scouts, Baden-Powell made it clear that sex - of any kind - was not to be a part of the Scout movement. There would be plenty of time for that in adulthood! Honor, discipline and other virtues were to be cultivated.
I suspect that this whole "issue" has less to do with "civil rights" than it is an attempt by the aggressive homo-paedophile militants to undermine yet another bastion of Western civilization.

[double moo]

I heard Baden-Powell was a closet homosexual who was also known to dabble in young men. So let's not cite him on this one...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/op...y-founder.html

[Chivas]

All the more reason to cite him, since he had the wisdom to keep sex out of the Scouts. Let boys be boys! Why the rush to deprive children of their innocence? Baden-Powell was a war hero and great man by any stretch. His sexuality is irrelevant to his accomplishments...as it should be.

[double moo]

Or... he was a pedophile who formed an entire organization to keep himself surrounded by available prey. Kinda like a Catholic Priest in Boston.

[Scott P]

Real classy double moo.

[Brian in SLC]

Oh, come on, Scott...there's classy, then there's classy...

I suspect that this whole "issue" has less to do with "civil rights" than it is an attempt by the aggressive homo-paedophile militants to undermine yet another bastion of Western civilization.

[accadacca]

See how to embed KSL Videos in your posts

SALT LAKE CITY

[accadacca]

The vote passed (61%) to allow gay scouts. Gay leaders are still not allowed.

[Sombeech]

Good news for the boys at least. Its terrible to be discriminated against at such a young age.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Scott P]

Because I was a scout leader, I was asked to participate in the survey.

I voted yes on letting gay scouts in and commented that I believed that to be morally straight, boy scouts, regardless of sexual orientation shouldn't be having sex at that age (11-17). I commented that I believe that as long as a boy doesn't participate in sexual activity, it doesn't matter what their sexual orientation is.

I had to vote different on leaders though. I wouldn't want my daughter to go on a campout with a male leader, even though the risk of something happening is small. There was just too much to consider. Nothing would probably happen, but even if it didn't, I didn't think it a good idea. Even if nothing really happened, and if someone didn't like their leader, there could be false accusations as well. Again, the chances might be small, but it didn't seem like a good idea.

[oldno7]

Heres some questions for ya'alls.

Since they are going to allow gay children into scouting, how will a determination be made that they are gay?

If you have no formal way of determining sexual orientation of a child, how do you know who your letting in?(gay or straight)

So are the scouts going to produce a questioner to be filled out by children as to their sexual orientation, prior to joining a scout troop?

If you never question children who are entering scouts, what their sexual orientation is, how do you know you are allowing gays in?

What a quagmire!!!

[Scott P]

Since they are going to allow gay children into scouting, how will a determination be made that they are gay?

If you have no formal way of determining sexual orientation of a child, how do you know who your letting in?(gay or straight)

That's what I have wondered as well. At least early on, I'd imagine that most scouts don't even understand what a sexual orientation is. I for one hope that scouts are never asked.

[accadacca]

Heres some questions for ya'alls.

Since they are going to allow gay children into scouting, how will a determination be made that they are gay?

If you have no formal way of determining sexual orientation of a child, how do you know who your letting in?(gay or straight)

So are the scouts going to produce a questioner to be filled out by children as to their sexual orientation, prior to joining a scout troop?

If you never question children who are entering scouts, what their sexual orientation is, how do you know you are allowing gays in?

What a quagmire!!!

Exactly. I guess it doesn't really matter now anyway...

How will sleeping arrangements work? Any thoughts?

[RedSpecialized]

I am currently a scout master. My biggest concern is how other scouts would treat any gay scouts in the troop. Not that I really think any boy 12-13 would really know if there gay at that age. I wouldn't care if there was a gay scout in my troop. I just know how brutal boys at that age can be. And I think there is a big chance they would be made fun of when the leaders weren't around. And the question that has already been brought up, how do sleeping arrangements work? I think what this will do is you will ultimately end up having gay only Scout troops.

Also as a leader I have zero experience with gay youth. It seems like this might open up an entirely new can of worms for an already law suit happy nation. ....?

I really don't think I will ever see anyone at 12-13 knowingly be gay. So I don't even seeing this changing anything for me. Although at 14-18 I see this more likely but still not much. Really, at what age does one know there gay. ...? I really don't know the answer.

I guess only time will tell how if and how this will effect if anything.

Sent from my SPH-L900

[Sombeech]

I'm a leader as well, currently with the 16-18 age group.

What a disaster it would be if gay scouts weren't allowed, then when one was suspected of being gay, what - interrogate him?

With the Leaders it's clearly a different issue though. My advice? If you are a Scout Leader and you are Gay, and scouting means the world to you, just keep quiet about it. Fight the policy anonymously, or just happily continue to live the life of Scouting and realize there is never an appropriate time to talk about sexual activity or sexual attraction of any kind to either gender in the Scouting program.

Unless I'm forgetting one of the merit badges, sexual discussion just doesn't belong in the program. So if you are gay and it is never brought up, mentioned, or an issue of any kind, go happily on your way and enjoy the program.

[Udink]

Unless I'm forgetting one of the merit badges, sexual discussion just doesn't belong in the program. So if you are gay and it is never brought up, mentioned, or an issue of any kind, go happily on your way and enjoy the program.

Is it just me, or did Justin just pass up a chance to play Devil's Advocate?

Nah, seriously though, kudos to you for taking this stance. I didn't expect that from you.

[Appalachia]

This is a very encouraging and thoughtful thread. So nice to hear from men who aren't homophobes.

I had an openly lesbian girl guide (scout) leader back in the 70s and it was no big deal. It gave my mom a chance to explain what a lesbian was. She just said, "Well, some women have boyfriends and other women have girlfriends. She has a girlfriend instead of a boyfriend." No big deal.

(But then again, that was in Canada...so maybe it's different? Seems nothing terrible has happened in the past 10 years since people of a minority sexual orientation have been allowed to marry in Canada....)

[accadacca]

It's brewing again...

LDS Church to Monitor BSA Policy Discussion

SALT LAKE CITY — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints responded Thursday to an indication by the Boy Scouts of America of possible policy changes in relation to gay scout leaders by issuing the following statement:

We have noted the comments by Boy Scouts of America President Robert Gates in relation to possible policy changes in the Boy Scouts of America. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will, of course, examine any such changes very carefully to assess how they might impact our own century-long association with the BSA.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/articl...icy-discussion

[Kuya]

I think the LDS church will support what ever decision is made. President Monson and other General Authorities are on the BSA Board of Directors. No decision will come as a surprise to them. Honestly I don't think letting adult Gay leaders serve will be an issue at all. (WOAH! did I just say that?!?! LOL) And the BSA is right, if they don't begin to open up to the gay's it will be to their detriment.