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Thread: Walker Gulch into Orderville

  1. #1
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Walker Gulch into Orderville

    I would like to attempt this next year sometime in the Spring...

    any tips on tallest rappel or length of time until you meet up with Orderville?

    Curious minds wants to know (as Tom always says).

    Thanks!
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
    "He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
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    "SEND IT, BRO!!"

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  3. #2

    Walker Gulch into Orderville

    You find anything out on this yet?

  4. #3
    Walker Gulch - Zion NP
    (The A-team calls this "Bicycle Canyon" to hide it from the rest of the world.)

    Canyon Rating: 3A II (exiting up Orderville)
    Car Shuttle required: Yes
    Rope requirements: 2 - 60 Meter ropes

    Longest rappel is 150'. The canyon contains a nice (short) section of narrows and a strangely placed bicycle. No bolts in the canyon but natural anchors are plentiful and obvious.

    Hiking up Orderville requires several hours and is brutal on a hot day. Hiking down Orderville is longer, more fun, comes with a long car shuttle.


    Enjoy

  5. #4

    Re: Walker Gulch into Orderville

    PS: when someone is ready to do this canyon ping me sideband and I have a deal for you if you want it.

    Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

  6. #5
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dweaver2130 View Post
    You find anything out on this yet?
    I got surprisingly about 5 PMs about it with the Show N Don't Tell contract. Something I don't agree with, especially on BLM land. I "understand" why they say that, but I respectfully disagree with it. Anywho, lots of Google Earth and topos searching and I was able to map out a trail, and guessed on rappel lengths (with some elevation tools) with the tallest at about 180ft at the tallest.

    I appreciate all the PMs; but now I can add some variation to Orderville without the blood oath, publicly, that is. There are 2 "potential" more variations (gulch, canyons, etc.) to Orderville that I have also found, but in due time they will come once I get to the drainages.

    But this Spring we will get the Get O.U.T. video crew in there and film from start to finish so you guys can check it out as well.
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
    "He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "...the first law of gear-dynamics: gear is like a gas - it will expand to fit the available space." -Wortman, Outside magazine.
    "SEND IT, BRO!!"

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  8. #6

    Re: Walker Gulch into Orderville

    Quote Originally Posted by jman View Post
    I got surprisingly about 5 PMs about it with the Show N Don't Tell contract. Something I don't agree with, especially on BLM land.
    Unfortunately for them, somebody WILL eventually do this route and post it up, then the reactive parties will have a mess to clean up.

    If you support "show don't tell" for this route, go ahead and feel free to discuss it here. Who knows, you may even prevent some damage by those who will inevitably do this canyon and publish it.


    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  9. #7

    Walker Gulch into Orderville

    I'm a fan of show don't tell! Would love to do some show don't tell canyons....

  10. Likes MrAdam liked this post
  11. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jman View Post
    But this Spring we will get the Get O.U.T. video crew in there and film from start to finish so you guys can check it out as well.
    Have you talked to Kip (@BW123 )? He knows that particular area better than anyone. And he is super cool. FWIW, I'll carry a rope if you want/need another person on your adventure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    Unfortunately for them, somebody WILL eventually do this route and post it up, then the reactive parties will have a mess to clean up.
    This seems a little trollish, but I'll bite. What is a reactive party? What mess will they clean up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    Who knows, you may even prevent some damage by those who will inevitably do this canyon and publish it.
    It only takes one person to shift the continuum from "secret" to "published". Keeping things under wraps requires a legion of canyoneers that think alike. Publishing only requires one independent canyoneer with a keyboard.

    The more people talk about an unpublished canyon, the more the continuum shifts towards published. In this case, jman and Ice are interested. Game over.
    THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
    TRIP REPORTS: TIGER | BOBCAT | OCELOT | LYNX | SABERTOOTH | CHEETAH | PORCUPINE | LEOPARD

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  12. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot Machine View Post
    It only takes one person to shift the continuum from "secret" to "published". Keeping things under wraps requires a legion of canyoneers that think alike.
    This always reminds me of how the FBI breaks the mafia.... you just have to get one person to talk and the whole system crumbles. In addition, the first person to talk always gets the best deal.

    There are plenty of canyoneers that will swap beta on one secret canyon for anther. The only way three people can keep a secret is if two of them are dead.

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  14. #10

    Re: Walker Gulch into Orderville

    Quote Originally Posted by Slot Machine View Post
    This seems a little trollish, but I'll bite. What is a reactive party? What mess will they clean up?
    No troll intended, i was just pointing out that if some noob like me stumbled upon this canyon, documented the hell out of it and thought i was providing a cool route to the community.... Feedback to follow, thanking for the info, asking questions and such.... And then the show don't tell peeps request to take the trip report down after everybody had seen it and enjoyed the data provided, it would turn into a mess to either delete and provide an explanation why, with criticism and attacks.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  15. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    No troll intended, i was just pointing out that if some noob like me stumbled upon this canyon, documented the hell out of it and thought i was providing a cool route to the community.... Feedback to follow, thanking for the info, asking questions and such.... And then the show don't tell peeps request to take the trip report down after everybody had seen it and enjoyed the data provided, it would turn into a mess to either delete and provide an explanation why, with criticism and attacks.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

    And what makes you think this could happen.

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  17. #12
    Naw I think "they" have all given up and crawled back into whatever hole they came from. Or seen the futility of their ways and gave up.
    Your safety is not my responsibility.

  18. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    No troll intended, i was just pointing out that if some noob like me stumbled upon this canyon, documented the hell out of it and thought i was providing a cool route to the community.... Feedback to follow, thanking for the info, asking questions and such.... And then the show don't tell peeps request to take the trip report down after everybody had seen it and enjoyed the data provided, it would turn into a mess to either delete and provide an explanation why, with criticism and attacks.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    If you did share a cool new route, and people got upset, then screw them. You are just sharing an experience in the outdoors. What is a more pure form of human interaction than sharing a great experience? And a simple experience at that- hiking. Does it get any more simple than hiking? Can we change the forum name 'canyoneering' to 'hiking with ropes' to simplify it a little?

    (Heck, sharing adventures, and living vicariously through other's adventures are the main reasons I'm interested in this website.)

    I don't care if peoples sphincters get all clenchy when I mention their favorite obscure holes in the ground. Nobody OWNS them. No human CREATED them. Anything I can see on Bing Maps is fair game to discuss. And that is damn near every canyon.

    Censoring this superb website is a FAR, FAR, FAR worse than accidentally giving away details on some canyon. It compromises your cred personally and tarnishes the overall quality of the site. I hope you refrain from censorship in the future and just let the clenchy folks marinate in their clenchy-ness.

    To be clear, I'm not harboring feelings about the Cherry Canyon thing. You and Kody had the best of intentions. I just view it as a cluster blunder that we all learned from.
    THE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
    TRIP REPORTS: TIGER | BOBCAT | OCELOT | LYNX | SABERTOOTH | CHEETAH | PORCUPINE | LEOPARD

    DON'T BE A STRANGER, LEAVE A COMMENT AND/OR SUBSCRIBE.
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  20. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot Machine View Post
    Have you talked to Kip (@BW123 )? He knows that particular area better than anyone. And he is super cool. FWIW, I'll carry a rope if you want/need another person on your adventure.



    This seems a little trollish, but I'll bite. What is a reactive party? What mess will they clean up?



    It only takes one person to shift the continuum from "secret" to "published". Keeping things under wraps requires a legion of canyoneers that think alike. Publishing only requires one independent canyoneer with a keyboard.

    The more people talk about an unpublished canyon, the more the continuum shifts towards published. In this case, jman and Ice are interested. Game over.

    Sorry, I heard my name; it's been a while since I've logged on. Walker is nice. It's not really similar to Birch Hollow in look; it does have some nice slanted narrows in the upper end and a great back-country feel. It has 3 raps all less than 150'.

    Kip

  21. #15
    Trail Master RAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slot Machine View Post
    Have you talked to Kip (@BW123 )? He knows that particular area better than anyone. And he is super cool. FWIW, I'll carry a rope if you want/need another person on your adventure.


    It only takes one person to shift the continuum from "secret" to "published". Keeping things under wraps requires a legion of canyoneers that think alike. Publishing only requires one independent canyoneer with a keyboard.

    The more people talk about an unpublished canyon, the more the continuum shifts towards published. In this case, jman and Ice are interested. Game over.

    This entire thread has had a "Us vs. Them" tone from the third post when Shane said "
    The A-team calls this "Bicycle Canyon" to hide it from the rest of the world." Actually the name came from here.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/5281


    Then Shane provided the beta, which according to Kip Marshall, the first recorded descender recalls (approx 12 years ago), Shane asked for and was given about a decade ago. I have never known Kip to lie, but I can't confirm or deny as I was not there. I did the canyon a little over 10 years ago, with Kip the first time and a year or so later with Bucky. I was never asked to be on a "show don't tell" or any other restrictions about the canyon. Several of my friends took a tour of the place over the next several years. None report any restrictions asked of them.

    I don't know Jman except that he is "always above me, looking down at me" and he made a flattering comment about Aaron's and my Mumbai story. He says quote "
    I got surprisingly about 5 PMs about it with the Show N Don't Tell contract. Something I don't agree with, especially on BLM land." This surprised me very much as I had never heard of any caveat on the beta. I e-mailed him asking that these fellows contact me so I could get to the bottom of this. I have not heard back from him. Perhaps I used the bogley e-mail feature wrong. It was the first time I tried it.

    I sought out everyone I knew who had done the canyon and asked if they had made a PM or if they had had restrictions on themselves when they did the canyon. Most were not aware of the thread, some don't visit the blogs and none recalled restrictions. I am not saying some may have been placed on someone I am not aware of or that I know all the people that may have done the canyon, but I struck out on finding anyone and it was totally inconsistent with what everyone I know experienced. Perhaps Jman can convince these people who PM'd him to contact me (adkramoo@aol.com)

    The canyon is named on the map. The access is easy to figure out and relatively easy to approach. The beta was there for the asking and no one did that I was aware of. One of the beta meisters has had the information for years.
    So I am quite disappointed by the divisive tone and wedge like comments. It's a shame
    Ram

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  23. #16

    Re: Walker Gulch into Orderville

    Ram, you sure are inferring a lot.

    Bottomline someone asked for the beta on the forum and I gave it to them, on the forum, including the aka and history of the aka.

    What the rest of your novel was about I have no clue. The only wedges I ever see are those created by the secert decoder ring crowd.

    YMMV

    Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

  24. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Ram, you sure are inferring a lot.

    Bottomline someone asked for the beta on the forum and I gave it to them, on the forum, including the aka and history of the aka.

    What the rest of your novel was about I have no clue. The only wedges I ever see are those created by the secert decoder ring crowd.

    YMMV

    Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
    Shane, not to diminish your relevance but I think Ram was responding to various posts, not just yours. You, Somebeech, and Deathcricket (genius) are the only ones that seem to be getting your panties in a bunch. You should know as much as anyone, as my beta goes, all you have to do is ask.

    Kip

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  26. #18

    Re: Walker Gulch into Orderville

    Ram called me out by name in his post. I was responding to that.

    The reason there is an us against them attitude is because every time someone posts a secret handshake canyon the mods at bogley receive a couple of emails asking us to remove the post because it was a secret.

    As for you personally.... you have helped me with beta whenever I have asked, and I thank you for that.

    Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

  27. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by BW123 View Post
    Shane, not to diminish your relevance but I think Ram was responding to various posts, not just yours. You, Somebeech, and Deathcricket (genius) are the only ones that seem to be getting your panties in a bunch. You should know as much as anyone, as my beta goes, all you have to do is ask.

    Kip
    Oh some random guy mentioned me!

    Dude you have 35 posts pretty much ALL starting arguments in mine or others threads, and ZERO trip reports sharing info with others. Hypocrite says what? I don't even need to own you, you just owned yourself, lol.

    Next!
    Your safety is not my responsibility.

  28. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcricket View Post
    Oh some random guy mentioned me!

    Dude you have 35 posts pretty much ALL starting arguments in mine or others threads, and ZERO trip reports sharing info with others. Hypocrite says what? I don't even need to own you, you just owned yourself, lol.

    Next!
    LOL Kip has explored and shared a lot of zion canyons with people, maybe if you didn't act like such an ass?

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