Assault Weapons?

[Brian in SLC]

The StG 44 (Sturmgewehr 44), literally "storm" (or assault) rifle (model 1944) was an assault rifle developed in Nazi Germany during World War II that was the first of its kind to see major deployment and is considered by most historians to be the first modern assault rifle.

But, back to the wiki page on assault rifles...I thought this was interesting:

The assault rifle became the standard military rifle in the post-World War II era. The Soviet Union was the first nation in the post-war era to adopt an assault rifle, the AK-47, and other nations followed later.

B-b-b-but whaddabout the good ol' M2 Carbine, in service in WWII (end of)? I think it meets the definition of "assault rifle". Pre-dates the AK by a few years.

[Brian in SLC]

From a ruskie website, interesting historical spin on the assault rifle thing.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/assault-e.html

Assault rifles are primary offensive weapons of modern troops. Today's AR (Assault Rifles) usually have calibers ranging from 5.45mm to 7.62mm, magazine capacity of 20-30 or more rounds, selective full auto and single shot modes of fire, plus, in some models, 2 or 3 round burst mode. Effective range of fire is some 600 meters or so; effective rate of fire - up to 400-500 rounds per minute in full auto mode. Many assault rifles shown here are, in fact, parts of whole families of assault firearms (from short carbines to light machineguns - Steyr AUG is a good example). Almost all AR's may be equipped with bayonet, optical or Night Vision scope/sight and, some of them, with underbarrel grenade launcher or rifle grenade launcher (rifle grenades usually are put on the barrel and fired with a blank cartridge). Todays trends in AR design are wide usage of hardened plastics and lightweight alloys and built-in holographic (collimator) or optical scopes with magnitfication of 1X to 4-6X (usually 1X or 1.5-3X).
Most of the worlds' recent assault rifles are designed in bull-pup configuration. This means that buttplate is attached directly to the receiver and handle with the trigger placed ahead of the magazine veil. The only major countries that still stick to conventional AR design are Germany (their latest G36 looks a little bit more 'conservative', comparing to Austrian AUG or latest Israeli Tavor), and Russia, where latest ARs are developed in both 'classic' (AN-94, AK-10x) and 'bull-pup' (Groza OC-14) styles.
The history of the concept of the assault rifle started in the early 1910's, when the famous Russian armorer, col. Fedorov designed a small-bore selective-fire rifle with detachable box magazine. Initially, Fedorow designed a brand new small-caliber 6.5mm cartridge for his rifle, but, due to WW1, switched to the Japanese 6.5mm Arisaka load, which was less powerful than the Russian 7.62x54R and available in quantity. This rifle was aquired by the Russian army in small numbers in 1916 and served (in very limited quantities though) with the Russian and Soviet (Red) Army up to 1925. While the design of the selective-fire rifle was not unique for that time, the concept of the "lightened" cartridge, more suitable for full-auto fire, was new. Also, col.Fedorov invented the idea of infantry weapons families (assault rifle, light machinegun, medium machinegun, vehicle and/or aircraft mounted MGs) based on the same actions and receivers.
The next step in this history was made by Germany - in the 1930's, theybegan research to develop a medium-power cartridge, which would be much lighter than 7.92mm German and easier to fire accurately in full-auto mode. This development led to the 7.92x33mm cartridge (Pistolenpatrone 7.92mm). The Germans developed some weapons designs for this load, including the MP43 and Stg.44, but this was too late for Germany... Further development of such designs was made by German engineers in Spain, and later in West Germany, and led to the HK G3/G41 family of battle&assault rifles.
The United States also put in some effort to this idea, and before WW2 developed a special less-than-medium powered cartridge .30Carbine and a rifle for this cartridge - a so-called "baby-Garand" in semi-auto M1 and selective-fire M2.But the largest stride forward was made by the USSR, when, in 1943, the Soviet Army adopted a new cartridge - the 7.62x39mm medium-power load. In 1945 , the Soviet Army adopted the semi-auto SKS rifle in this chambering, and, in 1947 - the AK (known for the West as AK-47). The AK was Worlds' first sucessful assault rifle, and one of the most widely used. The Last major step on this road was made by US again - in the late 1950's, the US Army adopted a new (for the US) concept of military selective-fire rifle using a small-caliber cartridge. The first of such weapons adopted was the Armalite AR15/Colt M16, designed by Eugene Stoner. This adoption lately set the new world trend for small-caliber (5.45-5.56mm / .22in.) high-velocity cartridges.All further research and development, such as caseless ammunition, multiple-bullet or sabot cartridges, etc., still haven't produced any practical results.

[Byron]

So, nothing more than 15 rounds here in Colorado...in the meantime, here's Frankenstein demanding to get rid of the scary looking ones.

[Brian in SLC]

Got a kick out of this...



From "the World's Assault Rifles" by Johnston. Full "or" semi...

Thought the car reference was great...

[Iceaxe]

According to the Washington Times, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid shot down Dianne Feinstein’s proposed ban on “assault weapons” and said it will not be part of the base gun bill Senate Democrats hope to pass.

This means DiFi’s bill would have to stand on its own merit, which means that the bill is likely going nowhere.

Harry Reid shoots down Feinstein AR gun-ban

[Iceaxe]

I was happy to see the NRA hire Colion Noir as a spokesman. He has a great ability to highlight the problems and outline a solution.

[oldno7]

This is similar to 94.

fineswine will be attaching her awb to another bill, almost guaranteed.

A test of wills is coming........


On another note--I see herbert as a last termer if he veto's the gun bills, which I see as likely.

If this state wants to remain conservative, theres no room for a Governor who wants to be a moderate.

Results will be Utah becoming the next Colorado.

[Iceaxe]

Herbert is an idiot if he vetoes the Constitutional Carry Bill. The bill is veto proof as it already passed with more then 2/3 in both houses. I'm betting he just lets it pass into law without his signature. If he vetoes the bill all that happens is he signs his resignation and the bill will still pass.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Brian in SLC]

Depends on who he owes favors to...SLC PD for one...and CB is way against it.

If I was in law enforcement, I might be bummin' if that thing passes...

[James_B_Wads2000]

[Iceaxe]

Welcome to the discussion... please bring some facts and statistics to back up your UN dream.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

[Brian in SLC]

Herbert is an idiot if he vetoes the Constitutional Carry Bill. The bill is veto proof as it already passed with more then 2/3 in both houses.

Is that right? I thought the legislature would have to get together and vote again to pass it by 2/3's majority.

Will be interesting to watch this play out.

[Brian in SLC]

Welcome to the discussion... please bring some facts and statistics to back up your UN dream.

Dreams don't need facts and statistics.

Maybe a few fake quotes from the founding fathers? Ha ha.

[Iceaxe]

Is that right? I thought the legislature would have to get together and vote again to pass it by 2/3's majority.

Will be interesting to watch this play out.

Yes, the legislature would have to over-ride the veto.... but seldom does a governor veto a bill that passed by more then 2/3 as the bill is considered "veto proof". It's very rare for a veto proof bill that is vetoed not to be over-ridden.

The best out for the governor if he opposes this bill is to just let it pass into law without his signature. That shows he was not happy with the bill without confronting the house and senate head on and still losing. The governor isn't required to sign or veto a bill, if he does nothing it still passes into law.

Anyhoo.... that's my 2 cents. YMMV...

[Brian in SLC]

The best out for the governor if he opposes this bill is to just let it pass into law without his signature. That shows he was not happy with the bill without confronting the house and senate head on and still losing. The governor isn't required to sign or veto a bill, if he does nothing it still passes into law.

My bet is that's what he'll do. Won't answer the mail for the folks lobbying him to veto it, but, he's not as beholden to those folks anyhow.

The bill doesn't pass my "reasonable man" muster. But, it'll probably pass.

[Iceaxe]

The bill doesn't pass my "reasonable man" muster. But, it'll probably pass.

The states that have Consitional Carry haven't had any issues.... and the criminals already carry concealed.... so...

Just saying I have seen nothing as of yet that proves Consitional Carry is a bad law.

Getting your CCP still has lots of advantages, the biggest to me are it makes purchasing a firearm much easier and concealed carry reciprocity with other states. Utah's CCP is still one of the better ones to have.

[Brian in SLC]

The states that have Consitional Carry haven't had any issues.... and the criminals already carry concealed.... so...

Just saying I have seen nothing as of yet that proves Consitional Carry is a bad law.

Getting your CCP still has lots of advantages, the biggest to me are it makes purchasing a firearm much easier and concealed carry reciprocity with other states. Utah's CCP is still one of the better ones to have.

It'll no doubt effect how law enforcement treats someone who has a firearm on their person. Given that some folks don't play well with authority figures...

One component of the current CCP system is education (as minimal as it is, its at least something). The other is data. We'll miss out on any proactive effects of either, which, is a shame.

On the bigger front...as predicted...go Harry! Ha ha...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...usaolp00000009

[oldno7]

Maybe not real but funny none the less...

If it is real--congrats Wisconsin

[oldno7]

On a related note--last I heard, Utah had over 500,000 CCW holders.

[Iceaxe]

Utah CCW Holder Brings A Gun to A Knife Fight....