Canyoneering USA Tech Tips

[ratagonia]

We've been adding a few, pretty basic things to the Tech Tips, of late:

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/techtips/

Enjoy.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Comments and suggestions welcome. Anatomically possible preferred.

Tom

[Slot Machine]

Anatomically possible preferred. Tom

The photos on your biner block page are good, but they are too small. If you click them, they don't enlarge as expected, but instead you're kicked to the top of the page.

Since the problem of rope grooves has been a warm topic lately, perhaps a page about preventing them might be useful. Extended anchors, courtesy anchors and single strap anchors (1 strap of webbing run from an anchor to the edge) don't seem to be techniques most folks use (but should).

I think a page about proper deadman/cairn anchor building would be very helpful. What is the safest way to wrap a rock with webbing? Also, a page about using potshots as retrievable anchors (a la No Kidding) would be cool too.

If you have already built pages on these topics, then never mind. Or maybe they should be moved to your tech tips page.

Overall, cool page! I've used a couple techniques that were learned there.

Bob

[ratagonia]

The photos on your biner block page are good, but they are too small. If you click them, they don't enlarge as expected, but instead you're kicked to the top of the page.

Since the problem of rope grooves has been a warm topic lately, perhaps a page about preventing them might be useful. Extended anchors, courtesy anchors and single strap anchors (1 strap of webbing run from an anchor to the edge) don't seem to be techniques most folks use (but should).

I think a page about proper deadman/cairn anchor building would be very helpful. What is the safest way to wrap a rock with webbing? Also, a page about using potshots as retrievable anchors (a la No Kidding) would be cool too.

If you have already built pages on these topics, then never mind. Or maybe they should be moved to your tech tips page.

Overall, cool page! I've used a couple techniques that were learned there.

Bob

Excellent suggestions Bob. I will put them on the to do list.

Tom

[Kuya]

The photos on your biner block page are good, but they are too small. If you click them, they don't enlarge as expected, but instead you're kicked to the top of the page.

Since the problem of rope grooves has been a warm topic lately, perhaps a page about preventing them might be useful. Extended anchors, courtesy anchors and single strap anchors (1 strap of webbing run from an anchor to the edge) don't seem to be techniques most folks use (but should).

I think a page about proper deadman/cairn anchor building would be very helpful. What is the safest way to wrap a rock with webbing? Also, a page about using potshots as retrievable anchors (a la No Kidding) would be cool too.

If you have already built pages on these topics, then never mind. Or maybe they should be moved to your tech tips page.

Overall, cool page! I've used a couple techniques that were learned there.

Bob

yes I agree with Slot Machine. I would be very interested in learning more about environmentally friendly canyoneering techniques.

[Sandstone Addiction]

Thanks Tom, I have really enjoyed your tech tips. Excellent.

[NWilkes]

Thanks for the suggestions, Bob. Images now pop-up nice and big on the biner block post.

[PG Rob]

Very well done Tom. Thank You! I look forward to seeing more.

[Dakine]

Thanks your tech tips are very helpful.

[heliski2]

Great tips Tom!
We often carry a 3' section of garden hose to help prevent rope grooves and chafe on the rope when it rubs against the cliff edge. We simply run the rope through the hose and lay the hose section on the cliff edge. It hasn't been a problem retrieving it so far as it usually comes down with a flip of the rope. If you are concerned about the hose hanging up when you pull the rope simply cut a small slit about 2" from the end and run a 4 - 6mm pull cord through the slit.

[dweaver2130]

Hey Tom, what do you think of the Frost Knot for webbing on anchors, and if your thoughts are positive, do you think you could add this to your tech tip list?

[Brian in SLC]

Curious what the Frost knot would be used for with regard to an anchor. Is it to isolate a loop (to put a rapide into)?

Water knot is so simple.

[PG Rob]

It can be used in place of a water knot + overhand knot, allowing you to tie one knot rather than 2.

[dweaver2130]

I like the frost knot for building anchors simply because I feel, and my opinion is worth about $1.59 less than a cup of circle k coffee, but it is easier to take a one long piece of webbing, tie off with a frost on your anchor, and then simply cut off the tail. Eliminates the need for multiple pieces of webbing, and I always had trouble with water knot and using just a little too much every time. Once I went to the frost, which is really simply like the water knot, I lost that problem. Maybe I am just screwed up. Last thing about it, I feel it is really easy to check if it is tied correctly, no more so than the water knot, but no harder either.

[PG Rob]

Last thing about it, I feel it is really easy to check if it is tied correctly, no more so than the water knot, but no harder either.

Agree! The knot is also positioned at a location that is conducive to checking it, where the water knot could end up anywhere, including being buried.

[ratagonia]

I like the frost knot for building anchors simply because I feel, and my opinion is worth about $1.59 less than a cup of circle k coffee, but it is easier to take a one long piece of webbing, tie off with a frost on your anchor, and then simply cut off the tail. Eliminates the need for multiple pieces of webbing, and I always had trouble with water knot and using just a little too much every time. Once I went to the frost, which is really simply like the water knot, I lost that problem. Maybe I am just screwed up. Last thing about it, I feel it is really easy to check if it is tied correctly, no more so than the water knot, but no harder either.

One problem with using a non-standard knot is that the next party coming along SHOULD probably remove it, since they would not recognize it as a valid solution to the problem.

If you put an overhand on a bight out near the ring, then you have fixed the location of the webbing and the knot, and can place it where it works best for you.

So, in a sense, I am agin' it as a knot for leaving on anchors, as it should confuse people.

(SHOULD, but we know that people will rap off of anything, crazy webbing, knots or no knots, junk or no junk).

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

I like the frost knot for building anchors simply because I feel, and my opinion is worth about $1.59 less than a cup of circle k coffee, but it is easier to take a one long piece of webbing, tie off with a frost on your anchor, and then simply cut off the tail.

I guess. I'll have to try it.

I just think its super simple if you're using a long piece of webbing to still either tie a standard water knot or an inline overhand (ala the EDK) if you're in a hurry. Water knot being so standard and easy to inspect.

I just need a very small toolbox, as, too many tricks that I don't apply get forgotton anyhow.

[2065toyota]

One problem with using a non-standard knot is that the next party coming along SHOULD probably remove it, since they would not recognize it as a valid solution to the problem.

If you put an overhand on a bight out near the ring, then you have fixed the location of the webbing and the knot, and can place it where it works best for you.

So, in a sense, I am agin' it as a knot for leaving on anchors, as it should confuse people.

(SHOULD, but we know that people will rap off of anything, crazy webbing, knots or no knots, junk or no junk).

Tom

The last canyon we did, the one piece of webbing that we had to leave you set up differently than I have seen it. A slip knot on the end of the webbing with the loop around the end of the tree. So that a single line of webbing extended out and then an overhand knot in the end with the rapid in it. It made sense that you could set up the exact direction of pull on the webbing, and you only had to use approximately half the amount to extend it out from the anchor. From what I remember the 1" tubular webbing has a breaking strength of 4000 pounds and the knot at the end reducing that by 25%. So a single line strength of 3000 lbs when set up that way. Whereas a full loop with water knot would be 4000 + (4000 x .75) for a 7000 lb strength.

[dweaver2130]

You're right Brian, but I'm guessing that my brain doesn't work that way, I always end up tying the water knot a few times in order to get the placement right so as to leave only the minimal webbing in place. Whenever I tie the frost, it seems to always end up working for me. I came across the knot after tying an etrier, and was like hmm, I wonder how this will work for anchors. Have used it now quite a few times with great success.

I get what you are saying too Tom. Most people having never seen it would probably do the, what crazy guy rappelled off of this, and re-rig, which could cause the potential for more use of webbing and left garbage (if they aren't the packing out type). Again, just a light-bulb that went off for me and was open to share my hair-brained schemes.

[ratagonia]

The last canyon we did, the one piece of webbing that we had to leave you set up differently than I have seen it. A slip knot on the end of the webbing with the loop around the end of the tree. So that a single line of webbing extended out and then an overhand knot in the end with the rapid in it. It made sense that you could set up the exact direction of pull on the webbing, and you only had to use approximately half the amount to extend it out from the anchor. From what I remember the 1" tubular webbing has a breaking strength of 4000 pounds and the knot at the end reducing that by 25%. So a single line strength of 3000 lbs when set up that way. Whereas a full loop with water knot would be 4000 + (4000 x .75) for a 7000 lb strength.

I consider the way I set that up to be a "standard method", though many others would not. To me, it is a better solution for a long-webbing rigging situation, as it leaves less crap in the canyon.

Tom