Results 41 to 60 of 67
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10-24-2012, 09:35 AM #41
Ohh OHH ohh! We should do this! I volunteer our Z-crew to compete with the coilers team. We have a 2 person coil method for a 300 footer that cannot be beat. I should video it sometime and put-er-up. One guy starts coiling while the other guy starts the rope pull, then he starts from the other end once the rope drops from the ring up top. It's genius!
Your safety is not my responsibility.
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Post Thanks / Like - 2 LikesDiscGo, Mountaineer liked this post
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10-24-2012 09:35 AM # ADS
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10-24-2012, 10:30 AM #42
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10-24-2012, 11:00 AM #43
Here's how the A-Team stuffs a ropebag:
http://imlaycanyongear.com/ropebags2.php
Easy, efficient, minimizes tangling problems.
Tom
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10-24-2012, 12:13 PM #44
ok, "good" then. Semantics - sheesh. Rope bags offer the possibility of increased speed (vs. using coils) - especially in wet canyons. Any rope management comp. would include throwing the rope down wet drops, leapfroggin, blocking single lines, etc. There's just no way a coiler can best a good bagger. Remember all the sunken coil treasure that used to wash up in Heaps? hahaha.
No comparison, really. I'll take on any coiler slime - any time.
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10-24-2012, 12:17 PM #45
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10-24-2012, 12:18 PM #46
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10-24-2012, 01:14 PM #47
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10-24-2012, 01:29 PM #48
That's like racin' for pink slips! Ha ha...
Yeah, I got a crappy old rope ready for the dumpster that I'd rappel on...
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 LikesDeathcricket liked this post
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10-24-2012, 01:30 PM #49
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10-24-2012, 01:38 PM #50
Gotta have some rules.
Here's some to get it started:
The contest is about rope management, not how fast one moves through the canyon. so...time for each evolution starts when the rope (reasonably secured to the canyoneer, not simply in hand) is touched, and ends when the rope is coiled or packed and again reasonably secured to the canyoneer. Coilers must take normal precautions to prevent rope loss due to sinkage. Penalty points for swimming with an unsecured rope. Rope bags are assumed to float the rope (though there have been cases where this didn't happen).
Edit: time stops during rappel operations - only deployment/securing/repacking is timed.
Next?
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10-24-2012, 01:47 PM #51
So....
Remember where this thread started. With problems of deployment. Yes, DiscGo was using the WORST possible coiling method, but his problem was in deploying the incredibly kinked up rope.
I make no claim that bagging is faster than coiling. A good coiler and a good bagger I think are pretty evenly matched. But the key point of the ropebag is that the rope is ready to DEPLOY, while a coiled rope is only somewhat ready. Working the overall cycle (deploy rope, rappel, pull rope, bag or coil) the bag will be faster, period.
At the end of the day, I often coil the rope, because me coiling the rope is gonna be faster than almost anyone else (Hankster excepted) bagging it. And that way, the hero carrying the big rope is relieved of also carrying the rope silo, which can be passed to a lesser person, such as me.
Christmas party? Say, about 9 pm when all contestants are adequately lubed up?
Tom
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10-24-2012, 02:16 PM #52
They ain't no canyons at the Holidaze party, Tom! Coilin' v baggin' a rope in the snow? Brrr. I'd win that one...ha ha. Maybe.
I ain't a gonna win no foot race, that's fo sho.
But, yeah, clock starts at the first rappel stance in Pine Creek (the first real one, not that approach thing). Butterfly coil on back. Rope bag on harness? Works for me. Then...go.
Clock stops at last rappel when rope is coiled and on back, or, rope is in bag and attached to harness.
Distance between the drops is short for the most part. Couple long hall ways to keep the rope draggers honest, but, not so long that foot speed is a huge deal.
Problem would be to try to find Pine Creek in uncrowded enough conditions to allow a race. Which, makes the playing field even more level...do it at night, with a headlamp. Can't run fast and have to be in control enough not to crash and burn. Or, you could just say "speed walking" and no running. That'd work better for me (ha ha).
Ropes. Pick your poison or have someone provide two of the same?
We'll need a party at the front and back with stop watches. One of us gets a 10 minute head start. Or, we time ourselves (easy enough). Flip to see who goes first. Support crew to include a frosty cold IPA at the bottom of the last rappel.
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10-24-2012, 02:48 PM #53
Rope bag v coil is part of the system. System needs to be tested and advantages of each as part of the system would have to be tested, so, the movement from rappel station to rappel station, negotiating water, securing the rope, bagging or coiling, moving to next station, re-deploying, all are part of the system. Only fair way to measure the difference in how each works in the system is to test them as part of the system, not, just deploy/secure/repack. What can make the rope coil system quicker, is, I can do it on the move. I can pull, be coiling, and, be moving towards the next anchor, all at once. Sure, if I drag my rope and its all clustered and gets stuck on some rocks, or, in some roots/debris, then, that's a risk of that method. All part of the game.
I'd think you'd want to rappel as part of the time. Beauty of the rope bag is being able to toss the whole thing down. On lower angle rappels, I'd have two rope ends to deal with getting down the rappel. You'd have one if you blocked, rapped, and tossed the bag.
Which is why Pine Creek is the perfect venue. Has enough drops, enough terrain, enough hazards, mix of close and far anchors. Works.
I might concede that if we were standing at a steep drop, and, all you had to do is feed one end through an anchor, lower the rope to the ground and toss the bag down, then, stuff it back in the bag, that you'd be quicker. But, if you're married to the bag as a system, then, it needs to apply to the canyon, and, not just a single anchor, drop, bag up.
If that was the case, then a holidaze party race would work. Deploy down a stairway to "someones" house (ha ha), then, bag or coil at the bottom. I'd still race ya! Not givin' me good odds, though...
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10-24-2012, 03:25 PM #54
Uhhh that sounds very dangerous.....
How about you just record the deployment, and "cleanup" of each rap? Then add the times together and post a vid. Someone else does the same thing and we compare notes? People rap at different speeds and once the rope is packed, travel time between obstacle is irrelevant IMO. Although I will fully admit when bushwhacking is involved, not snagging your rope because it's in a bag is a huge plus......
Plus I know at least 3 places in pine creek where people rap and our crew just jumps it....Your safety is not my responsibility.
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10-24-2012, 04:13 PM #55
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10-24-2012, 04:34 PM #56
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10-24-2012, 05:06 PM #57
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10-24-2012, 06:44 PM #58
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10-24-2012, 06:53 PM #59
You guys are not solving discos problem. How about if the bagger wins the race the coilers buy disco a rope bag and vis versa?
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10-24-2012, 09:15 PM #60
He ain't got no skin in the game.
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