So... I'm leading my first canyon today

[DiscGo]

For a couple of months I have been planning on going canyoneering this weekend in Zion with a group of friends. A couple of them cancelled for babysitting purposes, and then DeathCricket was supposed to guide us but got sick, and then other couple got scared when DC couldn't make it. My wife and I already had a babysitter lined up for the weekend, and didn't want to miss out. So we are doing Pine Creek by ourselves.

I am a little nervous about going through a canyon on my own, and my wife is afraid of heights and I am worried about her clipping in and getting going on the final rappel on her own. But win, lose, or draw this is happening. Wish us luck!

[jon.moab]

If you are nervous, take enough rope to provide her a top rope belay on the raps, especially the final one.

[Iceaxe]

If you are nervous, take enough rope to provide her a top rope belay on the raps, especially the final one.

X2

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[Deathcricket]

You can do it buddy! Like I told you before, I have faith in you!

[SRG]

Good luck!

[DiscGo]

For the record, everything went really well. We have been practicing rappelling with her from the tree in our front yard and I think it helped a lot. She was comfortable enough that she even did one of the rappels without me belaying for her while I worked on getting the rope untangled.

The rope was our only problem. We bought a CanyonFire rope back in August and outside of my tree this is my second time using the rope. It is super stiff and seems to get odd twists in it that add tangles. I am admittedly still getting the hang of rope management but I have been really surprised to see the difference between a new rope and a used rope. Anyone have any advice on how to help a rope not be so stiff without damaging it? Right now I am thinking about taking it to a laundromat (to save my washer any problems) and washing it on a delicate cycle. Bad idea?

[Iceaxe]

Your rappel device/technique is your big problem with rope twists and tangles. You need to stop using an 8 (Pirana) or learn proper rope management technique (using a rope bag and setting rope length).

A stiff rope is not your problem and anything you do to soften the rope is just a band-aid that will kinda mask poor technique. Better to solve the actual problem than attempt to mask it. If you don't fix the real problem it will eventually come back and bite you in the butt.

and congrats on leading your first canyon and bringing everyone back alive..... leading and following are different animals.

[Bootboy]

The best way to soften a rope is to use it....

[DiscGo]

Your rappel device/technique is your big problem with rope twists and tangles.

I get what you are saying that it is more to do with my rope management skills than it is with the rope it self but I haven't had this problem with other ropes. The rope doesn't get twisted when I am rappelling down it. It gets twisted when I put it back in my bag between rappels. So I am just trying to figure out the best course of action on how to prevent twists or kinks until my rope becomes a little more malleable.

[Bootboy]

Like I said, use it.

[trackrunner]

The rope doesn't get twisted when I am rappelling down it. It gets twisted when I put it back in my bag between rappels.

Are you experiencing twists when you deploy the rope at the top for the next rappel? What are you using, a rope bag or coiling?

if using a rope bag/silo clip the inside top attachment point clip to the front or your harness. tie one end of the rope in the bag at the bottom attachment point. clip the rope with a binner and clip to your chin strap. stuff the bag in a motion from your chin down into the bag. This will get rid of the twists and deploy the rope smoother.

if coiling then maybe you may want to consider a rope bag/silo since the proper technique is easier to learn. a unknown canyoneer once said coiling is bad, rope bag is good.

but there are better techniques to coiling. when you coil in your hands or on you forearms you can accidentally cross strands that when you throw the rope at the top of a rappel it can cause twists or rat nests. I'd recommend coiling in a way that your coil looks like a figure 8. I've found this to deploy smoother and easier to learn then some coiling techniques. YMMV There are other coiling methods that work.

[Eric Holden]

Congratz on the first lead.

My first lead was also my first time Canyoneering

[Iceaxe]

My first lead was also my first time Canyoneering

x2

Except the word canyoneering had yet to be coined so we were really just hiking with ropes.

[Iceaxe]

DiscGo, I'm really not following you as ropes don't just get twists in them. They are from either the rap device or your coiling method. If you are using a rope bag it is your rap device/technique that is the problem. If it's from coiling you might do better working from a rope bag or try a different method of coiling.

Sometimes I use a rope bag, and sometimes I use a mountaineers coil so I can eaily carry the rope over my shoulder. If you use a mountaineers coil you have to learn to put a half twist in every coil while coiling to avoid tangles. It's a great and really fast method, but it takes some practice to master. It's not a real popular method with other canyoneers because of the learning curve.

Mountaineers Coil

[mzamp]

Talk about rats nests...try untagling a 200+ foot 6mm pull cord. Needless to say, the rest of the trip i wouldn't let anyone touch that rope. And when I got home I immediately bought a Bagette for it. Problem solved...now even my noobs can share the work.

[Deathcricket]

Dude I will show you on our next trip. I should have showed you on our last trip sorry.

[rockgremlin]

Dude I will show you on our next trip. I should have showed you on our last trip sorry.

Too busy playing "hide the salami"

[Brian in SLC]

The rope was our only problem. We bought a CanyonFire rope back in August and outside of my tree this is my second time using the rope. It is super stiff and seems to get odd twists in it that add tangles.

Geez, don't wash it yet! That ain't gonna help.

Use it, ala the advice above.

Are you using a rope bag/bucket? It doesn't tangle when you rappel, but, its the way you are coiling it, or, stacking it in a bag??

Maybe its how you stack in in the rope bag?? Don't you just feed it in? Should feed right back out.

Congrat's on gettin' 'er done, though!

[SRG]

The mountaineer's coil wraps the rope around itself as if you were rolling a rope up on a spool. This puts a (half?) twist in the rope for every coil and it causes alot of twisting and tangling when uncoiling because people don't usually have the time(and space) to unroll the rope in the same way it was rolled up.

The backpacker's coil lays the rope on top of itself so it doesn't put twists in the rope to begin with. I prefer it to the mountaineer's coil by a long shot, but for cragging and canyoneering I still go with the rope bag.
Here's a decent video on the backpacker's coil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4uwdLAKT1g

-Sam

[Deathcricket]

Too busy playing "hide the salami"

No he asked me on our last trip "Let me start the next rap" or something similar, which I thought meant he wanted to be the first down. But I later learned he wanted to set the rap up and learn the little tricks... I failed him as a friend!

Next trip I am going to make it up to him though.