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Thread: Your Advice
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10-13-2012, 02:08 PM #41
As a woman, may I ring in on this thread? I am a little late since you have already placed your order with Tom.
I think your wife will enjoy and appreciate the Leprechaun more than the Spry. The Lep is the best pack ever made in the entire world. It will be her go-to pack for every canyon possible. I have owned 5 to date.
None of the other ICG packs fit women her size very well. She may spend more time kicking and cussing that pack than saying, 'thanks, dear'. I suggest you keep the Spry for yourself and let her borrow/ trade with you on occasion to see if she would like a Spry of her own.
The 5.10 Canyoneers are horrible shoes. I own a pair and have used them 6 times in ten years. Wow, are they really holding up. I have descended hundreds of canyons in my Merrill Moab Ventilators. They are wonderful, fit well, and stick to the rock well. After a dozen years, Merrill has dumbed down the quality of this particular shoe. I am in the market for another comfortable but good for canyon shoe. I have my eye on a Keen. If you wore ZAC's shoes, you probably wore the bumble bees, felt their sting, and know if they will be good/bad for you.
A simple harness is the best harness for canyons. The Alpine Bod is good, but any basic harness will do. The fewer bells and whistles the better. I don't think you need to worry about a women's specific harness since they are all so adjustable.
May I suggest if you are going to spend the time and money to get 'real' canyon gear, that you also spend the time (1 hour extra) to drive to North Wash and do 'real' canyons? There are over 45 canyons accessible from that area and well over half of them are beginner canyons.
Dave keeps me mostly supplied with all my canyoning needs, but I am going to agree with Spinesnaper. Perhaps a silky/lacey something tucked into the mesh pocket of the Lep would be appropriate. (Tom will not be able to help you with this.)
Lastly, I would like to caution you about canyoning with just the two of you. If you are interested, I would be glad to host a canyoneering couple weekend in Nov.
Penny
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10-13-2012 02:08 PM # ADS
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10-13-2012, 02:24 PM #42
Well, I guess I gotta come clean... this present is actually a group gift from all of her friends. I'm merely facilitating the purchase and covering any difference. Her real present is a 25 person cocktail party I'm hosting and cooking for so I'm definitely covered for her birthday.
Penny, thank you for the female perspective! Good to know about the pack and, honestly, I went with the Spry as it was right in the middle of the other packs offered and really just want to get a feel for it myself. I kind of thought it looked big so there's no problem with me taking that one and getting her something easier to lug. And thanks for the info about North Wash. I'm not entirely sure where we'll be heading for our first outing with the new gear yet (or when), but I definitely appreciate the advice and the offer. I'd love to try and meet up with some of you once we're a little more "seasoned."
Joe
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10-13-2012, 09:35 PM #43
Nice!
I thought of one more thing to add to your list; a Personal Anchor System. They are quite handy when dealing with anchors that have some exposure (think Zion), very strong and adjustable, I consider it a must have piece of equiptment.
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/pas_...or_system.htmlTHE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
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10-14-2012, 12:06 PM #44
Re: Your Advice
Purcell Prusik. Adjustable, and releasable under load.
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10-15-2012, 11:13 AM #45
YUCK!!!!
Oh, sorry. SOME people can like that. I call them Big Wall Climbers. For canyoneering, it is clumsy, slow, and in some conditions dangerous. Having a lot of crap hanging off your harness is a really bad idea. So don't.
Yes, you should have something for clipping in - a safety leash. But for canyoneering, it should be short and compact. If you need something longer, then add a sling to the ANCHOR, not to yourself. That way the 'longer thing' can be used by your entire team.
Why would it need to be adjustable in length? There are few hanging rappel stations in Canyoneering.
Tom
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10-15-2012, 12:37 PM #46
When could a PAS be dangerous? (not being a wise guy, I really want to know)
Is this not a safety leash? Tomayto, tomahto? I'm also not a fan of keeping excessive crap on my harness, I keep my PAS in my bag until I need it.
When using it, once I'm ready to rappel, I'll unclip it from the anchor and throw every other loop of the PAS on a biner to keep it out of the way. Once at the bottom of the rap I throw it back in my bag. Super easy.
When dealing with bolted anchors I find it helpful for my harness to be limited to a precise radius around the anchor. (I'm talking semi-hanging or exposed anchors.) Not too close, not too far. At my job they call that an "ergonomic workspace". Also, if one is unfortunate enough to slip at an anchor, then who would want to fall further than they have to?
BobTHE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
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10-15-2012, 02:40 PM #47
Quite a few stations which are exposed...IMHO. Heaps? I'd start that last series of rappels with a PAS or similar, pre-rigged, every time.
I'm not a fan of the PAS to be used all the time, but, as an anchor rig, I like it. Dislike daisy chains, which I still see a bunch of folks out there using (BD video would cure them, I'd think).
For the multi stage clip in thing, nice to have a PAS style rig. Especially if you're manning a station as others pass by. Also, useful for clipping in multiple spots on anchors which either don't end in a single point, or, to keep said single point clear for the rope.
PAS can be shortened easily, by just eatin' the loops up.
I do like the Imlay clipster. But, being limited to one short length doesn't always answer the mail either. Especially on traverses, when a couple of rigs are nice (ala the Petzl double thingy).
I see folks in canyon and climbing with a double PAS or daisy chain wad clipped to their harness....and...for most stuff, just seems way cluttered.
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10-15-2012, 03:01 PM #48
Always interesting to do canyons with a variety of folks...and...see what the seasoned do and how they rig, what they carry on their harness...
Luca. I wonder if the caving background has something to do with an ascender prerigged and at the ready? Nifty.
Also has tethers, which, ain't no foolin' around tethers.
Sonny. I think he's sportin' one of those Petzl double thingys (speleogica or some such)?
Both these guys are rigged for a specific type of canyon...and...when I've seen them in action, there's been plenty of very exposed anchor locations, some with via ferrata type traverses. Having a tether or two was super nifty.
I'd say they both have a fair amount of experience in canyons...ha ha...
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10-15-2012, 03:20 PM #49
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10-15-2012, 04:18 PM #50
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10-15-2012, 04:43 PM #51
It's not about shock-loading, entirely. Hope you picked up on that.
As I recall (always dubious), you are on the heftier side, which makes you substantially more vulnerable to the limitations of a daisy chain.
I too have another take-away, which I am implementing immediately. I will no longer construct daisy chains using scotch tape. My contribution to safety in the canyons...
Tom
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10-16-2012, 08:58 PM #52
Junk hanging from your harness can get hung up on stuff. Dry canyons this can be annoying, require rescue even, but not dangerous.
But in wet flowing canyons, junk on your harness can get hung up behind you and trap you in the water. There's been a few near-misses lately; one death in the Sierra seems like it was because of that. Ian the Knapster in Australia might have been because of that. The death this summer in a river is Switzerland might have been because of that... or was it a foot trap.
Perhaps it is over-exagerated. Perhaps I have too vivid an imagination. Junk hanging from your harness can get stuck.
But really, yes, some stuff will be hanging from your harness. Extra long things become troublesome. The PAS can be clipped up easier than some things. Some people I see with a daisy pass it around their back and clip on the other side. Yikes! having a strong loop behind you, out of sight, ready to catch on things... like I said, I have a vivid imagination.
Originally Posted by Slot Machine
Perhaps if your safety leash was tidy and small, you would not consider it a PITA to keep on your harness 100% of the time?
Originally Posted by Slot Machine
(Presidential Debate Night - exaggeration is in the air...)
But really, it takes considerable time, time lost.
Originally Posted by Slot Machine
There are other ways to achieve this result. I like hooking slings into the anchor then clipping with my short, tidy leash. Other people can clip in at the same point. Easy.
Well, hopefully made my point. There is a large degree of personal preference in this... mine happens to be short and tidy... I mean, my leash, my preference is short and tidy.
Tom
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10-16-2012, 09:05 PM #53
Thank you Penny, I think.
Those who are short and/or curvy will find the Spry (and Mystery) to fit better if you take the plastic sheet out, to make the back more flexible. Penny kinda specializes in narrow canyons, so would have less use for larger packs - your wife may or may not find the skinnies to her taste. Perhaps Kevin and Julie would pipe in, as they have done a few in North Wash and things elsewhere, and are also new(ish) to the sport.
Originally Posted by penmartens
Tom
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10-16-2012, 09:50 PM #54
Coming from Denver, better budget a LOT of $$$ for gas, as it's a 500 mile round trip just to Grand Junction. It's a long way to drive from the Front Range.. This does make a difference after a few trips, as it becomes clear that it's not the most practical hobby depending on where you live. Not as bad as getting into alpine skiing if you are from Florida, but still, it's a pain
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10-16-2012, 10:01 PM #55
4 star effort in the funny department.
As Brian pointed out, there are many ways to skin that cat. I'm always looking for a better way to do things. Perhaps I'll try your approach the next time we head out, it doesn't sound like too much of a PITA. Thanks for sharing.
BobTHE MOST TALKED ABOUT CANYONEERING TRIP OF 2017 - WEST CANYON VIA HELICOPTER.
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likesratagonia liked this post
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10-17-2012, 01:55 PM #56
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10-17-2012, 01:57 PM #57
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10-17-2012, 02:58 PM #58
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10-17-2012, 03:03 PM #59
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10-17-2012, 03:59 PM #60
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