lowest diameter for pull cord

[Mountaineer]

Thank you Tom for asking the question and posting the response, very useful. Seems the Tech Cord sheath can also slip/break > 2000 lbs on a double fisherman, so a triple is recommended.

My take away is that it is important to keep a log, inspect, and retire rope (all kinds) as appropriate prior to heading out.

[ratagonia]

Thank you Tom for asking the question and posting the response, very useful. Seems the Tech Cord sheath can also slip/break > 2000 lbs on a double fisherman, so a triple is recommended.

My take away is that it is important to keep a log, inspect, and retire rope (all kinds) as appropriate prior to heading out.

That is an odd take away.

Normal canyoneering ropes you do not need to keep a log. EVERYTHING you need to know about the rope can be determined by inspection. 10, 100, 1000 rappels - no consequence. Cuts to the sheath fibers can happen on the first or the 1000th rappel, and make that section of the rope unsuitable.

My take away is "don't use technora-cored ropes, even the best of them, the New England Tech Cord, for rappelling".

It's a free country, you are welcome to draw your own conclusions.

Tom

[Mountaineer]

That is an odd take away.

Normal canyoneering ropes you do not need to keep a log. EVERYTHING you need to know about the rope can be determined by inspection. 10, 100, 1000 rappels - no consequence. Cuts to the sheath fibers can happen on the first or the 1000th rappel, and make that section of the rope unsuitable.

My take away is "don't use technora-cored ropes, even the best of them, the New England Tech Cord, for rappelling".

It's a free country, you are welcome to draw your own conclusions.

Tom

Good point, and the choice of the word conclusion may have been a stretch here. I should have been more precise. By all ropes, I meant "all ropes", even those outside of the scope of canyoneering (dynamic rope that takes a fall in climbing). But this is a canyoneering forum.

My take away from their response was that you could use their cord for a rappel in an emergency. However, I realize this thread is becoming more of a debate between weight vs. contingency, and all the pros/cons of various types of pull cords that *could* be used to rappel with in an emergency.

I was advised awhile ago by many to never carry a pull cord. Always take double the rope. Since taking that advice, I have been in situations where that added rope weight caused significantly greater problems. Would be good to know, your opinion on the use of pull cords vs. taking double the rope? It depends on the canyon? You also state on your store for the 6mm "This cord is meant to be used as a PULL CORD only. Do not rappel on this stuff - it is not strong enough for that. "

[ratagonia]

I was advised awhile ago by many to never carry a pull cord. Always take double the rope. Since taking that advice, I have been in situations where that added rope weight caused significantly greater problems. Would be good to know, your opinion on the use of pull cords vs. taking double the rope? It depends on the canyon? You also state on your store for the 6mm "This cord is meant to be used as a PULL CORD only. Do not rappel on this stuff - it is not strong enough for that. "

"Always" is a nasty word, as is "never".

I say use it selectively.

Parts of the equation:
- how big is the group ==> for a small group the weight savings can be significant
- proficiency level ==> riskier to have less 'rope', so only use a pull cord when you have all proficient canyoneers
- class "C" ==> very risky to bring fewer ropes in a class C - easy to stick ropes - bring extras, not less than 2X.
- How many big rappels ==> if there is only one big rappel, I would have a greater tendency to use a pull cord.
- Far from the road ==> the further out a canyon is, the greater the benefit of saving the weight
- Exploration ==> adding a pull cord might be the easiest way to get more "reach'.

On our recent Full Imlay trip, we brought 1 x 185 8mm; 1 x 120 8mm and 1 x 60 foot pull cord for three people. There is one 170' rappel, and one 115' rappel (the last), and three other raps longer than 60 feet. This worked out well. It worked well.

YMMV

Tom

[denaliguide]

@ratagonia. my original "opps" post was a deletion of a unfortunate double post. i do appreciate the additional info that you posted from the manufacturer. that clears up alot. while i have used it more often as a pull cord, i have only rappeled on the tech cord a few times and for short lengths (less than 25'), and doubled. never as a primary single strand rap line. looks like it's time to retire it.

[ratagonia]

@ratagonia . my original "opps" post was a deletion of a unfortunate double post. i do appreciate the additional info that you posted from the manufacturer. that clears up alot. while i have used it more often as a pull cord, i have only rappeled on the tech cord a few times and for short lengths (less than 25'), and doubled. never as a primary single strand rap line. looks like it's time to retire it.

Sounds like you have 7 more to go...

The "Escape Cord" is probably used single strand. But the exact rappel device used might be consequential.

Thus I have to say, I have no opinion whether that piece is safe to rappel on.

And there I thought your oops was AWESOME, concise humor...

Tom

[Mountaineer]

Sounds like you have 7 more to go...

...a log book for the Tech Cord! Opportunity used it for landing on Mars, maybe after a few uses we can donate it to NASA as a tax deduction. Assuming it doesn't break on use number 10...

[Taylor]

I have been in situations where that added rope weight caused significantly greater problems.

Just curious, what problems were caused by added rope weight?

[Mountaineer]

More gear and weight is sometimes a bad idea. Fatigue. Reduced mobility. Trachyotomy Canyon. Stemming high for a long period of time and not fully realizing that your heavy pack (double rope) continues to help drop you down a few inches every few feet into a V. Then subtly you're stuck so tight you can't climb out.